Amazon MGM acquired creative control over 007

[secretagentfan]

@ChrissBond007

I guess compared to EON a lot could be considered more open fan interaction

I don´t recall any such interaction. Look at the “Lord of the rings”-show: the hardcore fans were bored and angry, and Peter Jackson was not even contacted for advice. Writers are being replaced for Season Three because the proudly announced accomplishments of Season Two did not translate to bigger numbers.

@ChrissBond007

In terms of narrative, I feel that it constantly tried to tell the becoming Bond narrative from CR (Bond going rogue, Bond quitting, tragic loss, Bond ready to get back to work in the end), a narrative that in my opinion is not something you can build the series on.

This in itself is a narrative perpetuated on the internet - but I myself had to discover when rewatching the films that CraigBond is actually always fulfilling his mission. He quits only at the end of SPECTRE, is then called back in NTTD for one last mission which he also ends successfully (just not for his own personal health). Yes, he experiences tragic losses in CR, SF and NTTD. But that’s all part of his whole arc. One can hardly argue that this is what makes the films too similar narratively because this is the story that EON wanted to tell. In contrast, one would have to criticize the other Bond films for always telling a story about Bond only suffering one loss in OHMSS but remaining unaffected otherwise.

But I agree: the great thing about Bond films is that every film is different in approach and style.

Will Amazon allow for that? Or will they streamline Bond into basically one “corporate identity”, like a tv show which decides on one particular look every director and cinematographer has to follow?

[Vanya]

@secretagentfan

That’s why the casting will be the biggest indicator as to where Amazon will aim with the new Bond films.

For me the litmus test will be the director. Will they pursue a prestige/ auteur? An action specialist? Or a reliable company man who will simply deliver what the studio orders?

That said, it will also be interesting to see who comes first, the Bond actor or the director. In previous years, it’s always the director, but now all bets are off.

[ChrissBond007]

@secretagentfan

Writers are being replaced for Season Three because the proudly announced accomplishments of Season Two did not translate to bigger numbers.

I guess we’ll just have to wait and see. I remember this being something that EON was also heavily criticized for leading up to NTTD, such as them being ‘‘thrilled’’ that the movie was delayed once again. It certainly is something different from Bezos asking people on social media who they’d like as the next Bond. Not that that means all that much and I certainly wouldn’t want Amazon putting everything out there on social media and using algorithms based on people’s responses. That would be a terrible idea. But I guess a bit more fan interaction would be interesting and could hopefully lead to them understanding that neither Bond fans or the general public are interested in seeing 10 different shows related to the 007 brand on Amazon prime.

@secretagentfan

One can hardly argue that this is what makes the films too similar narratively because this is the story that EON wanted to tell. In contrast, one would have to criticize the other Bond films for always telling a story about Bond only suffering one loss in OHMSS but remaining unaffected otherwise.

I don’t necessarily agree about the Craig films. And I have rewatched the films a lot of times, including a few months ago, so I still kind of have them fresh in my mind For one, CraigBond quits the service 3 times (in CR, SF and SP). CR, QOS and SF all follow the same becoming Bond concept, symbolized by the gunbarrel in the end (or in CR’s case the first time we here the James Bond theme). SP is a bit different, which is maybe why it’s my second favorite of the Craig era and I actually like it for the most part. But then in NTTD, Bond again has to come back and prove himself again, he has to literally become 007 again.

The approach on how to make the films didn’t really change that much during the Craig era compared to before. The films were still made one at the time and I think the overarching story and narritive the Craig era was going never really came to fruition as it should have. At least to me, it felt like: Well these are the concepts that worked for CR, so that is what we will be doing from now on. Personal angles, Bond going rogue, Bond quitting, turst issues, and a tragic loss with Bond crying. But in my opinon, these aren’t the right concepts on which to build the series. But I’m really glad you enjoyed the Craig in a new way this time around.

And yes I agree about the other Bond films pre-Craig. I myself wish more was done in some movies on an emotional level, especially following OHMSS. But the series had a winning formula which was crucial to the series always being able to move forward without being burdened by what came before. And while doing so, having each Bond film have their own unique style and feel.

@secretagentfan

Will Amazon allow for that? Or will they streamline Bond into basically one “corporate identity”, like a tv show which decides on one particular look every director and cinematographer has to follow?

That is my biggest concern apart from the spinoffs. I really hope the people they hire get this.

[secretagentfan]

@ChrissBond007

CraigBond quits the service 3 times (in CR, SF and SP)

In CR he sends an email which M does not really take seriously, and within a few hours he has found out about Vesper and confers with M about proceeding.

In SF he is shot down, called dead by Mi6, but comes back when he sees they are under attack.

Th only real quitting is in SPECTRE.

@ChrissBond007

But then in NTTD, Bond again has to come back and prove himself again, he has to literally become 007 again.

I would argue he remains Bond, only Nomi gives him the 007 moniker „back“ out of reverence. But Bond is only doing one last mission because he is dragged back into the proceedings personally.

@ChrissBond007

Personal angles, Bond going rogue, Bond quitting, turst issues, and a tragic loss with Bond crying.

It may seem like that but every film of the Craig era employs a different angle on Bond‘s duty, and it often results in personal loss. But there is no template which just get repeated.

[plankattack]

Our perspectives are all shaped by our experiences - I’m a “child” of Sir Rog and was taken to the novels via the films. Like us all I have my likes and dislikes - it takes something for me to watch DAD or SP, and as for my Fleming, my copy of DAF has been nothing more than a coaster for a couple of decades and even that is a fate too good for it.

I do think Bond is different from the other ‘IP’ out there (I do so hate having to even utter ‘IP’) in that IMHO it has never been a universe - it’s always been a story about one man. Unlike Star Wars, Marvel, even as Christopher Nolan proved, a character such as Batman, there has never been a world that I feel I need to explore. No, I didn’t read any of Higson (despite all reports from you here that it is very good for what it is) and I just don’t care about Moneypenny’s diary, desk, hat-stand or anything else.

My point is, am I wrong here and have Amazon spent a gadjillion on some untapped well of material? Or did they (really overpay) to get their hands on a film series?

I ask that because I do think that where they are on that will provide the clues as to what they’ll do with what interests me (less and less I’m afraid to say) - the films. There’s clearly going to be crossover and character (rather than product) placement which will shape our cinematic experience. Is there truly a market for “Felix Leiter Adventures” or “Moneypenny Experiences”? Let’s be honest, the spy market is saturated enough that variants of this stuff don’t already exist - is Moneypenny a compelling enough character when we’ve already got Kiera Knightly doing female spying on another streamer? What is Felix other than a chance to do Jack Ryan stuff and Treadstone, and not to be a snob, none of these properties cost (and aren’t worth) what this franchise just did.

I know we’ve all cited the “I might watch a De Armas” spin-off film, but let’s give credit where is due - EON came close with Jinx and for many reasons it didn’t go. But if there was truly a belief it would make money, then somehow, someone, at EON or MGM would have made it fly.

I don’t see Bond as Star Wars, where however one feels about the end result, the likes of The Mandalorian, Andor, even Rogue One itself, seem to make more sense from a creative standpoint, but also any executive claiming there’s a market to be mined.

How psyched are any of you on the potential for “content” - I don’t mean “It’s kind of Bond, so I’ll check it out”, I mean “Thank God the Blofeld miniseries is beginning, that’ll all satisfy me until the next gunbarrel.”

Again, I’m fine being an outlier, but my own perspective has never seen Bond as more than a single film series, at this moment in time, still undiluted…

[AceRoberts]

I’ve been waiting for a director and new Bond announcement before engaging here once again. But the bombshell of the creative control switch has changed all that.
I’m not sure it its possible to add anything new, but I will say this. The opportunity exists to bring Nolan onboard after he finishes The Odyssey. It’s a dream of many on this forum to see that happen. Plus, given the time to properly plan and execute a new direction from him would energize any off-shoots Amazon might desire. It’s probably NOT gonna happen, but it is an opportunity that smart executives should give a serious look-see.

[Orion]

Well they do employ his brother already…

[St.John.Smythe]

Even if Amazon-Bond proves disappointing and subpar, we can always stick with EON-Bond. Just as some people never read the continuation novels and only care for Fleming’s.

Plus, we were never going to get the old classics Bond back anyway. And we were getting nowhere with EON in the foreseeable future.

So let’s stay positive. As James would put it: “what could possibly go wrong, eh?..”

[secretagentfan]

@St.John.Smythe

Even if Amazon-Bond proves disappointing and subpar, we can always stick with EON-Bond. Just as some people never read the continuation novels and only care for Fleming’s.

That actually is a fitting comparison. EON has really gone back to Fleming.

[MrKiddWint]

@sharpshooter

We’d all better fasten our safety belts.

Bond fans in the Amazon Oligarch Era:

@secretagentfan

The Chelsea is an apartment house now?

Yes. And people carp about Blofeld being Oberhauser.

@ChrissBond007

Because unlike many other series, the James Bond films are about one character.

But Amazon can change that (and may do so to start recouping its investment). EON produced one thing: James Bond films. Amazon satisfies a multiplicity of demands. Different mentalities and approaches.

@secretagentfan

Writers are being replaced for Season Three because the proudly announced accomplishments of Season Two did not translate to bigger numbers.

Bingo. EON kept a steady hand at the helm (by-and-large) through any and all results. Bond is now in a world where creatives are disposable, and answerable to streaming success, which must be replicated/improved on a frequent/regular basis.

@secretagentfan

like a tv show which decides on one particular look every director and cinematographer has to follow?

The only approach that has a hope of making back Amazon’s investment.

@ChrissBond007

neither Bond fans or the general public are interested in seeing 10 different shows related to the 007 brand on Amazon prime.

Who knows? If Amazon is lurking here, they know Bond fans do not want it, but if they can slice Bond into its constituent parts, and then base series on those parts, which attract cohorts, which while overlapping, also are distinct, they will reach the audience numbers they want not through one movie that attracts all, but by giving each group what it wants/enjoys.

@ChrissBond007

The films were still made one at the time and I think the overarching story and narritive the Craig era was going never really came to fruition as it should have.

I am glad it didn’t. Previous Bond movies built on what came before without being continuations. This allowed the movies to be both Bond movies, and responses to their moments of production. EON was superb (more often than not) at finding this sweet spot. As you note, the secret sauce for the series was

@ChrissBond007

being able to move forward without being burdened by what came before.

That is the method of Classical Hollywood, which is going out the door with $1 billion dollars in its attache case.

@plankattack

my own perspective has never seen Bond as more than a single film series, at this moment in time, still undiluted…

Amazon hopes that you are in the minority (but remember we love you).

[plankattack]

@AceRoberts

I’ve been waiting for a director and new Bond announcement before engaging here once again. But the bombshell of the creative control switch has changed all that.
I’m not sure it its possible to add anything new, but I will say this. The opportunity exists to bring Nolan onboard after he finishes The Odyssey. It’s a dream of many on this forum to see that happen. Plus, given the time to properly plan and execute a new direction from him would energize any off-shoots Amazon might desire. It’s probably NOT gonna happen, but it is an opportunity that smart executives should give a serious look-see.

See Ace, I see it a little differently - if anything, if there is a moment for Nolan to come onboard, I actually think is the best time for someone to back up the Brinks truck and make it happen. I think Nolan has said that he would love to do a Bond, but it has to be “his” guy as the lead.

Now look, I know Bezos is clowning around with his Twitter feed, but I can’t imagine Amazon are going to be any different than EON in how it’s “their” decision and no-one else’s as to who is the lead - and yet executives in general I just don’t trust. There are some names at Amazon thrown around (Valenti, I think) who have a track record with franchises who one would have to trust, but if there’s any truth to some of the stories in THR, Variety etc, there were a few at Amazon who were busy running their yap to Babs with “I don’t think Bond is a hero” and referring to the whole thing as “content” then the unease that many of us have at these developments is justified.

Anyway, back to Nolan. There are many of directors who have always been public with their love of the series - Spielberg, Soderbergh, to name just a couple and Nolan is on that list. Frankly I’d trust a filmmaker over an executive any day of the week when it came to anything creative and the series could do a lot worse than restarting with Nolan at the helm for a couple of films. If Amazon were smart (or as Dirty Harry used to say “knew their limitations”) they’d find a way to bring onboard the best who are available - and more importantly a director who execs don’t try to mess with.

No, I know Nolan is not everyone’s cup of tea on these here boards, so I’m not saying it should be him; all I’m saying as a fan, I’d feel a lot more at ease if the person at the helm at least gets Bond to some level. You could sell with me “Soderbergh’s doing it!” and I’d feel safer from the suits over there. Looking at it all as “content” is exactly the mistake Disney have made.

(and now stand me against a wall and pelt me with “JJ Abrams - he said he was a fan of Lucas!”)…

[MrKiddWint]

@plankattack

(and now stand me against a wall and pelt me with “JJ Abrams - he said he was a fan of Lucas!”)

JJ Abrams’ name should never be in the same post along with those of Spielberg, Soderbergh, and Nolan, unless it is part of an instance of “Which if these things don’t belong with the others?”

No pelting, but you have to wear a short pink tie on your next three meals in a restaurant.

[sharpshooter]

@Yellow-Pinky

I could live with that announcement as an initial stop-gap to get the ball rolling. That said, Cavill’s got the Highlander reboot and a slew of other projects on his plate right now, so I don’t think that’s the way it will go unless he’s willing to clear his schedule. But I could see Amazon seeing him as a safe bet and a known commodity short term.

I can see that too. If Amazon move quickly they could even hire the man who wanted Cavill in the first place (Campbell) to direct him. I’ve expressed criticism about Cavill and his leaked audition, but to be fair he was young. A runner up getting the role would be some link to the past despite the new management.

[Orion]

The taped auditions are always bad, Cavill might have done really well at the professionally made audition, which i seem to recall Campbell directed, so getting them to do it wouldnt be the worst idea. It would, however, invite its own complaints of not being able to do Bond without using things EON had done.

[stromberg]

That’s not my problem with Cavill. To me, the problem with Cavill is not that really bad (probably) first audition tape, it is what I’ve seen from him ever since he was in talks (oh, don’t say you didn’t do that with candidates of back in the day, say, Alex O’Loughlin in Hawaii 5-O; and, btw, where’s Goran Višnjić now?). In brief: I don’t want him as Bond.

Would just be too easy. I want that inspired choice we had before, someone out of left field, and not that obvious one like Brosnan (or Roger, to a certain extent). Maybe not a Laz, but maybe a Dalton (they don’t have the balls to do another Craig, and a new Connery is near impossible).

Note to Bezos: worst idea ever, asking the “fans”. Had they done that back in 2005, we probably would have ended up with Robbie Williams

Ask the algorithm about an actor who “clicks” with a new generation audience and who’s capable of turning them to old crap that originates in the late 50s/early 60s, and we might end up with Timothée Chalamet as James Bond…

(you’ve seen the name brought up first here)

[MrKiddWint]

Fun fact post about the world of James Bond 2.0

[Orion]

So…

[sharpshooter]

@stromberg

Note to Bezos: worst idea ever, asking the “fans”. Had they done that back in 2005, we probably would have ended up with Robbie Williams

Indeed. Whoever gets the job now won’t be who Barabara or Michael would have chosen. Even if someone like Cavill auditioned in the past they still weren’t deemed good enough and were overlooked. Because apparently “if God had sent us a totally no-brainer Bond in the last couple of years, then it might be a different situation.” The Amazon era sends the franchise into almost fan fiction alternate reality like timeline, rather than what would have really been.

[HockeyMask]

Just about every Bond actor had previously auditioned and got turned down before they were eventually hired, right?

[Orion]

Dalton and Brosnan are the two I know, but both times it was for external reasons. Though wasn’t Moore approached around YOLT, or am I imagining him saying that in an interview?