Deathmatch 2022: Sideswipes - September 30

I am equally surprised that I went for TND (film) without much question. Maybe in this moment of epochal change, I felt that tradition is tradition, and if anything is to be preserved, it is the canon above all else (even when it might be an inferior bit of canon).

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Is the Flowers the one at Disney at the end? Yeah no, that’s not being saved.

Have to say, in what is a pretty weak bracket, NSNA comes out the winner. Historically NSNA is, so far, the only “alternative” version to the EON series template, and for that, it has some significance (I’m exempting CR67 as it’s, well, almost impossible to classify!).

If nothing else, NSNA is an individual’s Bond-film Rorschach test. What do you see when you watch it? Does the lack of a gun barrel and liberal use of the Bond theme bother you? (guess you’re probably not a big fan of QoS then…). Or is the presence of the original guy alone enough to make you settle in your seat and know you’re “watching a Bond.” Does the Q scene make you chuckle? Or is your only reaction “that’s not Q!”?

NSNA is saved because of its status as “curiosity.” I’d offer that the other film on the list is subjectively a “better” (Bond) film in the traditional sense. It’s got all the bells and whistles and while I’m not its hugest fan (I like it more now than I did on release), I do appreciate how easily it washes down. But, it is just one more version of the others (I’d offer that there is absolutely nothing unique about TND). NSNA on the other hand, is a unique (I didn’t say particular good) remixing of the whole thing and for that, it makes the cut.

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I went with TOMORROW NEVER DIES (film) because…

It’s indeed not entirely clear to me why. The title is nonsensical, the plot is bizarre - not in a good way - and the personnel and action are underwhelming. And yet there is something about this entry both GOLDENEYE and THE WORLD IS NOT ENOUGH seem to lack. Is it the unpretentiousness, the sheer fun of putting a silly adventure on the screen and be done with it? At any rate, to me this is a glimpse of a series that didn’t have to choke on its own back catalogue and aspirations.

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I think that’s true. Sure, there was the token DB5 cameo, but the main car was loudly and proudly a BMW - and it received a full blown chase sequence that remains one of the best demonstrations of vehicle gadgetry in the series. The Brosnan era is criticised for playing it safe, but it still did move forward with that new branding, including the choice of Omega.

I love TND. Not just as entertainment but also in the way its themes are still so relevant. Possibly more than any other Bond film that has been released since. In terms of the last great henchman, I don’t believe Stamper has been bettered either. As Roger Moore said, “with a Bond film you usually come out having a good couple of hours of laughter and action.” At the core, that is generally the experience a Bond film should be providing. TND gave me that experience, and I think a lot of it holds up.

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I almost totally agree with you sharpshooter. The only exception I have is that I like Hinx and Patrice better than Stamper. Other than that totally agree. The henchmen AND villains in the series have been largely hit and miss with more misses than hits since Tomorrow Never Dies.

TND is a great Bond film, number 6 on my list. It is a fun romp throughout with a plot ahead of its time with Pierce Brosnan at his absolute best. It’s got great action and gadgets and I love the suspenseful PTS–actually my favorite of the series as Bond accomplishes the seemingly impossible. It’s a fun film. :+1:

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For September 11

Insofar as the Craig tenure is a little pocket universe with its own few rules of logic, if Bond 26 picks up from where Bond 20 left us (although it really, really won’t), who would you bring back? (The obvious option of “Absolutely none of them” isn’t available; that’s democracy for yer, bound to disappoint).

  • Pierce Brosnan
  • Halle Berry
  • John Cleese
  • Michael Madsen
  • Michael Kitchen
  • Colin Salmon
  • Samantha Bond
  • David Tattersall
  • Christian Wagner
  • Lee Tamahori
  • Madonna
  • Someone else not otherwise used at all in Bonds 21-25

0 voters

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Picked Brosnan because I’m still pitching the care home idea, LOTS OF SHOUTING !

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For September 12:

In a smiliar vein, you’re sitting in the offices of whoever it was at the time and have seen the mixed reaction to OHMSS, as has the person sitting across the desk who represents the finance. They are prepared to invest in the next Bond film, which will still be Diamonds are Forever - OHMSS is making money, after all, just not quite as much - but they insist that only one of the below will be sanctioned as a participant in it - which do you pick? Assume anyone resigning the main role (a-hem) didn’t happen.

  • Michael Reed
  • Peter Hunt
  • Telly Savalas
  • George Lazenby

0 voters

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For September 11, who would I bring back? I went with someone who would be noticeable in their return, i.e. an actor. Having said that, you can’t bring back Halle Berry she already did her turn and it is 20+ years later, and a number of people, whether rightly or wrongly, didn’t like her and/or her character. Michael Madsen is a great bad guy and character actor, but his turn as Dominic Falco left a bit to be desired for me so he is out–and Madonna was just a cameo. As for Pierce Brosnan, he’s already been James Bond. While I would have loved for him to do a fifth film, him returning to the series in another role just wouldn’t be right. In regards to John Cleese, Michael Kitchen, and Samantha Bond, I’m afraid they’re just too old now for their respective roles. That leaves Colin Salmon in his Charles Robinson role. So that is who I would choose to return.

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For September 12, which person would I bring back? That is a good and tough question. The fan in me says George Lazenby as I do think he is a good James Bond, but a part of me does wonder if he had continued for a few more films, would the 007 series have made it past the 1970s? Roger Moore was the perfect Bond for that time after all. I think Lazenby COULD have worked for one or two more films, but if you’re betting millions of dollars with your own money, I don’t think he would be the choice in this instance.

Michael Reed did a great job on OHMSS, but I think he would be the least essential of the four to return.

So that leaves us with Peter Hunt and Telly Savalas. A Sean Connery vs. Telly Savalas matchup on screen would have been incredible, particularly if they had played up the revenge angle that they largely abandoned in DAF.

Before I typed this, I was thinking I would go with Peter Hunt because he was one of the most important people responsible for Bond’s look and action due to his editing the first five films–and he did a great job with OHMSS. But as I typed this, I realized the Connery vs. Savalas angle is too good to pass up so that gets my vote.

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I’m afraid I wouldn’t bring back any from ON HER MAJESTY’S cast or crew.

The producers wanted to sail a steady ship, which is why they supposedly offered Lazenby a seven film contract (that would have seen him going into the mid-80s, possibly OCTOPUSSY or A VIEW TO A KILL). Sadly, Lazenby wasn’t at all a ‘safe’ bet and would likely have meant trouble down the road.

Peter Hunt has been a remarkable force behind the scenes of the Bond series. But that one film he directed was apparently his zenith. None of his work after ON HER MAJESTY’S suggests he was an underrated, misunderstood genius. To the contrary.

I used to adore Savalas’ Blofeld. But over the years I’ve come around to Deborah Lipp’s assessment that Savalas’ Blofeld is the wrong kind of interpretation for the part. He’s physical for the action parts of the ice channel chase. But there’s no trace of even a fake aristocrat that would convince, nowhere. If anything, his Blofeld gives the impression he doesn’t care either way. That’s a fine villain, just not the one we’re supposed to see.

That leaves Michael Reed. I agree that he’s done fine work with ON HER MAJESTY’S SECRET SERVICE. But then, so have others in the series.
No reason to bring him back.

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I guess I have to agree, harsh as that assessment was. But I will say this, the two Smith-adaptions that he helmed next, both showed that he could elevate pulp, which makes him no different from Young. And considering how many other directors of his era were able to make a hash of countless MacLean etc adaptions, that’s no mean feat.

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For September 13:

A call for assistance. The next Deathmatch will be title sequences but the fourth and final for September will be “Victims”.

I think this is wider than “sacrifical lamb” as that tends to suggest innocence and a Victim might not always be so; likewise wider than “allies” as not all will be. Also, Victim doesn’t necessarily mean death, although frequently the case as James Bond is a lousy chum who won’t give a damn about you.

Logic so far but there are some gaps where I am struggling to fix on someone:

Dr No - Quarrel
FRWL - Darko Kerim
Goldfinger - Jill Masterson (although Tilly M gets more screentime, I would say JM is more iconic)
Thunderball - Paula
You Only Live Twice - Aki
OHMSS - on the basis that Tracy is obviously the victim but has already appeared in a Deathmatch, I am going with Draco - doesn’t die but does ultimately suffer. Does more stuff than Campbell.
Diamonds are Forever - Plenty
Live and Let Die - see below
TMWTGG - Andrea
The Spy who Loved Me - see below
Moonraker - Corrine Dufour
FYEO - Countess Lisl
Octopussy - Vijay
AVTAK - Chuck Lee
The Living Daylights - Saunders
Licence to Kill - Della Leiter
GoldenEye - I’m going with Ourumov, he’s out of his depth and does suffer. Even if “not nice”. Can’t really think of any other “Victim” as such.
Tomorrow Never Dies - Paris
TWINE - Zukovsky
Die Another Day - General Moon (this one is a bit thin and might be setting up DAD to fail yet again but it’s not Miranda Frost and I am struggling for anyone else - that mop-haired tech bloke? Maybe but General Moon has a litle story)
Casino Royale - Solange
Quantum of Solace - either Fields or Mathis. Flip of the coin - Mathis. Hmm.
Skyfall - Severine
Spectre - Mr White
No Time to Die - Felix Leiter

OK, so finally getting to the vote:

Who is the Victim in Live and Let Die?

  • Rosie Carver
  • Strutter
  • Charlie the driver
  • One of the bods in the pre-titles, just flip a coin

0 voters

Who is the Victim in The Spy who Loved Me? Loads of people die, admittedly.

  • Commander Talbot of HM submarine Ranger, a noble sacrifice
  • Naomi
  • Fekkesh
  • Kalba
  • Professor Beckmann and Dr Markowitz
  • Felicca
  • Sergei Barsov
  • Stromberg’s secretary

0 voters

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I would suggest Solitaire could double as the real victim of LALD

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I went with Harold Strutter over Charlie because Charlie was hardly seen–even less than Strutter and Strutter was cooler anyway. And I picked Strutter over Rosie Carver because he was a good guy whereas she was bad, plus he had a more memorable death scene too.

Likewise, I went with Capt. Talbot over Felicca because he was more obviously a good guy. Felicca may not have been really bad as her shouting “NO!” kept Bond alive, but she kept bad company so she doesn’t get the benefit of the doubt. Although her death is pretty tragic.

And Jim, as for other potential sacrificial lambs/victims that you didn’t mention, I can see why you went with Lisl von Schlaff over Luigi Ferrara, but I am intrigued you went with Della Churchill Leiter instead of Sharky although I suppose she is more “innocent” than Sharky. As for No Time To Die, what, no James Bond? I’d put a laughing emoji there if my heart wasn’t so heavy (and pissed off) that they killed James Bond. :angry:

And Jim, you’re right about GoldenEye. There really isn’t anyone to pick as a victim, although I’ll state as a funny aside, that one might count Boris Grishenko as a victim–of his own hubris that is. :smiley:

TBH I forgot about him. OK, another poll just to clear that one up

Who is the Victim of Licence to Kill?

  • Della
  • Sharkey
0 voters

On No Time to Die, thought about that but given that it lays waste to so much, Leiter is a big enough beast.

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I didn’t think I would, but I went with Della. Whereas Sharky willingly teams up with Bond on his mission, the “innocent” Della is simply about to enjoy her honeymoon when she and Felix are captured and then she is killed (and Felix maimed) which ignites the plot and Bond’s fuel for vengeance. Textbook victim I would say. Although how brutal is Licence To Kill (my favorite Bond film by the way) if you’re fed to sharks and still don’t win a victim contest. :crazy_face:

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I’m still a fan of Savalas’ Blofeld, however with time I’ve settled on Charles Gray being the best. He may not be the most physically threatening (Gray nonetheless does match Fleming’s description of Blofeld having silver hair and being thinner in OHMSS) but he’s the king where snobbery is concerned. Without conscience but not necessarily insane is a great way to describe him, which is demonstrated with his exit to the Bathosub while demanding everyone else remain at their post or be shot.

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Della is a “victim” in the sense that its her entire raison d’etre. But does anyone care?

Kerim Bey’s is a loss we feel. Something goes out of the film with his passing, and we’re as angry as Bond. Della? Not so sure. If anything, it’s Felix’s fate that gets the most attention and when its all over Felix seems mighty chipper in the hospital. “Hey they saved the arm and they make great prosthetic legs these days, I’ll be fine, old buddy. What’s that? Oh yeah, the wife…”. I’m not one to rant about the “girlfriend in a fridge” trope, but Della fits, IMHO. She only lives and dies to tell the men’s story.

I say the victim in LTK is Felix. Also, fashion.

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