I mean, I suppose. But I remember getting chills when the opening crawl started when I watched The Force Awakens and The Last Jedi. I was 27 and 29 respectively when the last 2 films came out. I’m 31 now. I don’t think anything fundamentally changed in me, I just have less interest in this series now. Disney has oversaturated us with 5 Star Wars films in 5 years of inconsistent quality, after getting 6 films (7 if you include The Clone Wars animated film) between 1977-2005 (2008 for Clone Wars).
I’m sorry you didn’t enjoy Rise of Skywalker, theSpectre. If you watch the other Star Wars movies closer to this one, you’ll find that Return of the Jedi has incredibly slow parts (i.e. the first 40 minutes), before rehashing A New Hope, and Phantom Menace is a glorified child’s sci fi movie. The scenes between Rey and Kylo are light years ahead of Anakin and Padme (“I truly, deeply love you.” “It’s only because I am so in love with you.”) Did we forget that? Rewatch it to refresh the memory.
And I’m finding it kind of ironic that people are complaining that the ninth entry in the saga, 11th in a franchise, isn’t original. Is that really what we wanted from this one after the first eight, or ten?
I think in time people will come to like this. I went in going to enjoy it because I knew it’d be the last one for a while. And I believe the sequel trilogy did fill a story gap that the other two trilogies lacked yet built towards. The original is about the son’s faith redeeming the father, and the prequel is about the father making mistakes out of love for his family. This sequel trilogy is about a romantic redemptive love. Rey is the one who shows kindness to Ben, without being a family connection, and doesn’t want anything from him in return. Kylo Ren thinks he’s irredeemable and that’s why he wants to bring Rey to the Dark Side as he feels it’s his destiny due to his past actions. But Rey convinces him otherwise with her actions. That’s why he sacrifices himself for her at the end. That’s a selfless love constrasted with Anakin’s possessiveness of Padme and their offspring.
As for the return of Palpatine, did we really want a Dooku/Grievus/Snoke stand in? No. The whole trilogy of trilogies is due to Palpatine’s actions and influence, so that is how it had to conclude. The Darth Plagues speech from Revenge of the Sith sets that up. The Sith can’t be Force ghosts so of course they’ll exhaust every possibility for immortality, whether cloning or inhabiting a living body.
Finn is Force sensitve (that’s what he wanted to tell Rey) so that’s not really walking back the democratization of the Force in The Last Jedi. Plus Jannah said her whole stormtrooper company laid down their weapons due to a “feeling.” And as for Rey’s parentage, isn’t what she learns worse than thinking her parents were nobodies? She learns the sacrifice her parents made for her and then finds her place in the world. I think JJ expanded on TLJ more than walking it back.
Except for Rose. You’ve got me there. I didn’t care for the Zorrie Bliss character (what’s with all the helmets, Star Wars?) but there’s no point in me rewriting the film because a) they didn’t ask me, and b) it is what it is.
To paraphrase Ricky Gervais’ Golden Globes monologue, “We’re all gonna die soon and there are no sequels” (or Force ghosts.)
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Well said. I just disagree on one point: the often criticized dialogue Lucas wrote for the prequels.
Lucas´ goal with the whole Star Wars saga was to emulate the tone of serials like Flash Gordon. To expect more elegant or even (as it today seems to be expected) jokey, self-referential dialogue is beyond the point.
Also, the dialogue between Anakin and Padme is often awkward because it is meant to be awkward. Both are in their 10´s or early 20´s. They don’t know how to handle their feelings. That’s why they talk in clichés about their love. Exactly like people their age (and often all their life) talk about their emotions.
If you look closely at the dialogue in Marvel films, for example, it is polished, in on the joke, highly entertaining. But nobody in real life would talk that way.
When Lucas started the prequels, there was no precedent for genre pulp to have that kind of wink-wink dialogue the Marvel movies have made the standard now. In contrast, if you look at the dialogue of the new trilogy it is definitely informed by that new tone.
As for Lucas´ dialogue - REVENGE OF THE SITH has one of my favorite lines ever because it is precise and timeless: “So that’s how democracy dies: to thunderous applause.”
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Rose was part of a failed experiment, as she was heavily in Leia scenes that they only got one to stitch together naturally - watch the film again, there is a conversation between 3 people seemingly sharing a scene, that could not have actually existed, as it had Kelly Marie Tran and Greg Grunberg sharing shots with Carrie Fisher, despite having never been in a room with her.
Abrams, Kennedy and Disney deserves praise for creating the impossible, not criticised for the miracles they couldn’t perform.
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It really is a disservice of the internet to have someone state something negative - and it sneaks into the minds of others so fast, stopping any reasonable thinking, replacing it with ideas not based in truth.
“J.J. Abrams undoes everything Rian Johnson did!” - He doesn’t. Still, it seems to have been the narrative that many wanted to be true, simply in order to be mad at Abrams (after being mad at Johnson for taking his own chances).
This is not directed at you, cgebby, or other people here, by the way. We managed to have thoughtful and friendly discussions here, and naturally we disagree on things, but thankfully we give reasons for our views. I was only referring to other boards where the vitriol and hatred against Abrams and TROS was and still is unbelievably idiotic.
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Excellent points about the prequel dialog, secretagentfan. I’ll bear that in mind on my next watch. You make good points. I always appreciate your posts. And I am enjoying the prequels more nowadays, at least episodes II and III.
I’ve been pretty positive about this movie, defending JJ and Disney. I think they did a good job. All the ‘negative’ reviews online I’m beginning to feel are clickbait for the people who don’t like it. “How do we get them to visit our website? Let’s post a negative op-ed on it.” For example, all of a sudden there is a flood of TLJ praise online. Where was that love two years ago? (A research paper showed about half the negative social media posts on Star Wars came from Russia’s ‘Internet Research Agency.’)
Some fans are upset that Luke and Leia knew of Rey’s parentage but didn’t tell her. Like Yoda and Obi-Wan told Luke? If such a critical lense were trained on the original trilogy, those movies wouldn’t fare so well either (“Gross, she’s kissing her brother!”)
As of today, TROS has grossed $930M, $450 in the US. That means probably 75 million people saw it. How often does that happen? Most aren’t that invested in Star Wars, let alone visiting sites like ours. They just want to take the family, be entertained, and enjoy some escapism. I think it will eventually gross $600M US, and slightly more than Rogue One’s $1.056B.
It’s better than what Colin Trevorrow would have give us, or Lucas’ idea of a microbiotic emphasis on midi-chlorians. Oh, but it’s a failure, disaster, a mess! I say, Bantha fodder! 
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I painfully remember that. RofJ is a clunky mess that only awkwardly wraps up the OT. Slave Leia, Boba Fett’s pathetic death, repeating the infiltration of Jabba’s palace by the droid, then Leia, and then again by Luke (all in the span of, as you said, about 40 minutes) is strange. That’s not even to mention the special edition of Return of the Jedi, let’s not even talk about that train wreck.
I didn’t go into RoS not wanting to enjoy it. I was just heavily off-put by all the marketing and seeing the film confirmed all of the concerns I had. As I said above, I’m not a big J.J. Abrams fan. He’s someone who is great at setting up mysteries, but he’s terrible when he actually has to answer questions. Recall what he thinks of the “mystery box” and how he feels that you never have to explain what it is (case in point: we still have no bleeping clue what the Rabbit’s Foot is and we never will). But I don’t think he’s the reason this movie feels so underwhelming (at least to me). He didn’t originally want to direct it and he wanted more time that Disney wouldn’t let him have. Apparently, his 192 minute cut actually makes more sense too and we may get it either on Blu-Ray or Disney+.
From what I can tell, the blame for the failures of the sequel trilogy fall on Disney. They didn’t have a cohesive plan and then didn’t stick to what they created when a small contingent of heavily vocal “fans” spewed disgusting vitriol at everybody because they didn’t like The Last Jedi. They seemed to defend it and Rian Johnson, but with this film it seems like they were trying to both retcon it out of existence and throw RJ under the bus. Now, they didn’t fully wipe it away (Poe mentions the Battle of Crait and Luke is still dead), but most of the big reveals of RoS seem to undo what Rian Johnson was trying to do with The Last Jedi.
TLJ was about honoring our past, but not being a slave to it. We can’t move forward if we can’t let go of the past. IMO, the subversions Johnson went for and, while I’ve said before not all of the story beats work, he at least tried to make a different kind of movie. But it also makes this trilogy feel so disjointed. The Last Jedi is a middle finger to The Force Awakens and The Rise of Skywalker is a middle finger to The Last Jedi. Additionally, while RoS more closely aligns with TFA, it even admits that Starkiller Base was a mistake.
This is why I much more enjoy discussing Star Wars here than anywhere else. Many fan-bases have their toxic fans and unfortunately they tend to be the loudest and make it not fun to discuss. I don’t mind if we disagree as long as we can have a civil discussion and give reasons for our thoughts as you’ve said, saf. Personally, I truly think The Last Jedi is the best of the 3 sequel trilogy films. It’s the boldest, the least heavy on groan-inducing fan service, takes risks, ACTUALLY HAS SPACE BATTLES!!!, and has the most thrilling third act of the 3 films. But that’s my opinion only.
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Totally agree, that specific bit was more a general comment, why I gave it a gap from answering your query.
…so…Lucas is pro-incest?
Snide jokes aside, Lucas was CLEARLY making it up as he went. I don’t think Disney should take flak for doing the same.
It was the 80s man.
Stories go through changes during production. I’m sure that the No Time To Die we all will be seeing in April will not be quite the same film that was agreed upon when filming began or when Fukunaga was brought on board. Look at George R. R. Martin’s original outline for A Song of Ice and Fire. It was 3 books long and featured a romantic relationship between Jon Snow and Arya Stark and had Jaime Lannister as the series’ main villain.
Lucas had outlines for I think at least 9 films when the original Star Wars was made. I remember reading a long time ago, that the original plan was that Vader was NOT Luke’s father and making Leia Luke’s sister only really came about during production of Revenge Return of the Jedi .
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Totally agree, but I think the other two are unfairly criticised, often for crimes Lucas himself was FAR more guilty of.
I know Lucas says that…the films don’t back it in anyway.
Ok, fair enough. I guess it mostly comes down to the fact that watched as a whole, despite a convoluted and exposition heavy 3rd act that retreads much of its first act, the original trilogy does tell a (mostly) cohesive overarching story. The prequels, for all of their failures, definitely tell a cohesive overarching story (not making any comments on the quality of said story or films, just that they do have a connected story). The sequel trilogy just does not. None of the films really feel connected to each other and The Rise of Skywalker only has tenuous connections to the rest of the trilogy (as I said, far more so to TFA, but even then it doesn’t really agree with it). The Rise of Skywalker, itself, feels like an entire trilogy worth of material thrown into one 2 and 1/2 hour time frame.
Prequels, I’ll grant you, do attempt to have a cohesive arc to them. The originals, I’d argue, fit the pattern as the sequel trilogy, right down to a twist in part 2, the next film spends a good chunk trying to make fit and long portions going on what is essentially a tangent.
Also; Rey goes through the same off screen training between films that Luke did. I think Johnson is the only one of the 5 main film directors not to use “just…go with it” as a way of moving a series plot along rather than bother explaining things.
That is definitely true. It’s strange seeing her trained by Leia as it never once was alluded to before RoS that Leia had Jedi training. I can sort of understand the idea that, due to wibbly wobbly, timey-wimey space b******t, Luke probably spent a lot more time on Dagobah than Leia and Han did whilst running from the Empire. Months on Dagobah could equate to maybe 24 hours elsewhere. Yes, it’s a “just go with it” excuse, but I can accept it. Just as I can accept that, despite the main chase in The Last Jedi taking place in less than a day, Rey likely spends several days or weeks on Ahch-To with probably the same explanation. Again wibbly wobbly, timey-wimey.
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Jeffrey Wright has begun filming The Batman. Very excited about this project and his role in it.
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This.
I’m trying to get a guy at work to watch TROS, but he’s just lobbing negative adjectives about it without citing any facts or evidence. He read the leaks online, which is a way to insure not liking a movie before it comes out. Sad, because he’s a fan of the saga up until TLJ.
I remember watching the Special Edition of Empire Strikes Back in the theater in 1997, and the crowd gasped “eewww” when Leia plants that kiss on Luke. “Oh yeah, because in 1980 we didn’t know that … eewww!”
This is part of the reason why it took me so long to see TROS. I just wasn’t very excited for it. I also did see 2 major spoilers online, but they were also not very shocking. Pretty much as shocking as finding out Palpatine was Darth Sidious or Oberhauser was actually Blofeld. Like duh, we already knew that. I still went in with an open mind and just wasn’t wowed by anything. The film moves way too fast and yet feels incredibly slow. The first act is a horrid mess and While the film does pick up considerably once they get to the Burning Man planet, it still never gives you a chance to breathe or even let any of its story beats sink in. I also can’t get over how it reuses one Star Trek Into Darkness’s worst story beats. I’m trying to not post any spoilers here, but if you’ve seen the movie then you know what I’m talking about. Come on Abrams, you can’t do better than that? All that said, for me TROS just isn’t my cup of tea. If you like it that’s great and I hope I’m not ruining anyone else’s enjoyment of the film.
Which story beat you mean? (Put it in spoiler brackets, please!)
Summary
The death-curing super blood. TROS equivalent is the apparently death-curing force healing.