Reboot? Remake? Retro? Which direction should the series take next?

I’m not sure about this. The mere example of fallibility alone to me would only suggest a character isn’t omnipotent - meant to be a human, but not necessarily a character in a realistic tale.

Bond is a disguised Saint George - therefore his trade has to be slaying dragons. Reality is an important ingredient as a veneer, not in absolute terms. It’s meant to look like our world - much like the pages of Architectural Digest look like our homes. And it’s keeping lockstep with the topics of our times, energy crisis, space entrepreneurship, terrorism or authoritarian excesses - but none of them are actually solved by Bond or even just taken seriously. They are the scales on the armour of the dragon, nothing more.

Inside that habitat of ersatz-mythological lore Bond’s mistakes to me don’t point to realism but rather to the obstacles he has to overcome, his own nature amongst them. They are his Achilles heel, but not there to bring him down, rather to grow above and beyond the ordinary human level - while still keeping to the fiction he could falter*.

Bond survives his adventures and wins his battles mainly by physical courage, endurance and (often unfounded) optimism. In the end it doesn’t matter how ill equipped he is and how badly the odds are stacked against him, he must bring down the dragon.

The fact that he does time and again points more to wish-fulfilment than anything we would observe in our reality. Bond is a faerie tale for grownups.

*And in doing so this growth beyond the ordinary suggests we - the readers, the audience - could also surpass our own limitations, if we were just motivated, courageous, persistent and confident enough. We know that’s tosh, but the idea flatters us nonetheless. And - it’s not entirely tosh. We may not be able to kill dragons or force hijacked airplanes to emergency ditch in the Atlantic. But on a more ordinary level we are capable of surprising feats of human spirit, as Fleming and many others witnessed in the war. Up to a point, that was what Fleming set out to remind his readers of.

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I think the trick is presenting something that isn’t real so you wish it was. I generally appreciate what they did with Craig’s era but when you hear Final Ascent playing and he’s climbing to his death, the series has undeniably reached a point well beyond traditional entertainment of yesteryear. It’s time to scale that back. As such I’m super nostalgic for elements of ‘Bond as a superhero’. Things like a yellow gyrocopter or white submarine car. It would take more guts to lean into that direction rather than giving more of the same we’ve already seen from Craig.

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Hunt is, I guess, looking for a family since he had to give up the love of his life, and his small unit is the only one he trusts and wants to protect.

Bond should stay alone, making connections only if he needs them (and then see their sacrificial lamb-death as more motivation to stop the bad guy). His introspection only needs to focus on him knowing already he is the secret agent we all know and, um, love, and realizing how dangerous that can be for his allies. Bond, in my mind, should be a loner, never even wishing for a wife and kids, only enjoying short term flings with the kind of woman he ends up with in rubber boats. The early eras got that right.

A good vs evil constellation definitely is part of it, also a plot to connect setpieces and a villain we love to hate and see defeated. Simple, simplistic even, but that’s the essence of Bond. To stretch that concept will only break it.

Again, the early eras created a perfect template. Show Bond in luxurious hotels, eating and drinking the finest, travel to the most beautiful locations, wear the perfect suits - and be immediately comfortable with it, instead of „not giving a damn“. Quite simple, actually.

I believe that the vicarious participation in Bond‘s attempts to stick it to oligarchs and stop crazy politicians out to end democracy would already be enough to identify with him. If Bond‘s thing is to be the little guy who can, a modern Saint George as Dustin perfectly points out, he already has the majority of moviegoers on his side.

And that’s again what the early eras concentrated on, and why the Craig era with their focus on personal vendettas boxed itself in. Solipsistic rage only takes you so far.

Yes, but you don’t need to open that door too wide, nor do you have to go through it. Just see that door is open behind you but move on.

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As I was writing the post, the thought popped in my head: “Remember, Dustin says Bond is Saint George.” What I think has changed is that while the iconography of Bond as St. George can still work to some degree, Bond’s audiences no longer agree on who St. George represents, and that all of the dragons he faces are actually slay worthy.

St. George is not just a Christian martyr, he is a megalomartyr–a super martyr, and maybe the greatest of the military saints. The more fallible that Bond is, the more he moves away from the St. George template for me.

So when you point out

I agree that Bond must overcome obstacles, but not that his own nature is one of them. St. George never had to overcome his own nature–he was a saint (or saint-to-be). Bond with inner issues is a patient on Dr. Freud’s couch, not St. George. For example, Moore Bond has to overcome Jaws in MR. Punching him in the mouth is shown to be ineffective, and Bond eventually lands on what will work. Bond ends up finding the right solution, usually through applying trial-and-error, mixed with the gadgets that always turn out to be a great match for the situation at hand.

For me, I admire Bond for his ingenuity and perseverance, rather than any soul-searching. As I am writing this post, what Ross MacDonald (a literary hero from my teenage years, who is still going strong) said about Lew Archer came to mind: if Archer turned sideways, he would disappear.

I am coming to realize that I love the Bond of DAF and MR, since there is no interior to fuss over. Connery has a slight pause when Moneypenny proposes Bond bring her back a ring with a diamond in it, but otherwise, Bond is (at best) stoic, and (at worst) callous/indifferent.

I love Bond ticking off Dr. Goodhead’s CIA-issued equipment, revealing their equal footing. Much preferred to one of my unloved Moore Bond moments, when he tells Anya that “In our business, Anya, people get killed. We both know that.” (Lewis Gilbert even has Moore walk away from the camera, and turn his back, for dramatic heft, and it still doesn’t come off). Give me Moore Bond in a well-equipped gondola, and acting with casual dispatch.

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That - and we possibly also don’t agree on the dragons any more. A sizeable part of society - again? - started adoring them and argues the dragons of the past were merely ahead of their time. That’s pulling at least some of the common rug from a tale that’s meant to be universal.

Perhaps not his entire nature, but certain traits of his personality. Boozing and womanising, his pastimes when at home, take the backseat when he’s called up to M for a mission. It’s a streak that’s given more room in the books. When Bond sets out to negotiate Dr No’s obstacle course he’s extremely uncomfortable and downright afraid of the spiders he kills. But he overcomes his fear and manages to survive them and the other nasty surprises down the way.

And Bond does make mistakes, at times downright stupid ones. Taking Jill Masterson on that train ride in Goldfinger, entirely out of bravado, was spelling trouble for her. That she ends up dead is just a natural consequence of Bond’s mistake - a carelessness that extends to his wedding when Bond apparently strolls across Munich in search of an engagement ring blissfully unaware that Bunt recognised and followed him.

Bond’s mistakes make him human - or seem so to us because we share his vices - and his overarching mission is to overcome his ordinary weaknesses to do the extraordinary.

I myself found these among Moore’s strongest moments in the series, the Anya speech as well as the reference to his wife. To me they indicate the flippant easygoing attitude is just veneer. But they do stick out somewhat.

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That’s the brilliance of Moore‘s portrayal: there is more than meets the eye. Only Dalton made me feel there is more, too, although he hid the other sides (maybe they would have been revealed in later films).

Craig, so lauded for his many facets, played IMO only one side and played it completely visible, with no surprises at all.

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The yearly business review, by the way, states that Danjaq had a great revenue year in 2023, without any new Bond film, relying on merchandising and the 007 store which increased its prices. Projections for next year are stable and do not include a new Bond film but other movie productions.

Yay, they don’t even need to make more Bond films.

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Kind of fitting, this is a just released book on the casting of the previous Bonds:

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By Robert Sellers, who brought us “The Battle for Bond”. Ordered :white_check_mark:

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Done. My wife is going to demand a divorce - or a new home…

By the by, The Battle for Bond is a treasure, one of the best background histories in recent years shedding light on one of the bloodiest chapters in the annals of lit and film Bond. Strongly recommended.

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Out now in the UK but not out until next May in the US. In this age of being able to order from anyplace in the globe via Amazon, I still don’t understand this…

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I get mine in May 2025, not sure if it’s already out in the UK.

EDIT: Apparently yes, it’s even discounted on Amazon.co.uk. :man_shrugging:t3:

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I can order it right now from Amazon UK and with shipping to me in the U.S. I’d pay $37.53

If I pre-order it from Amazon US at the current price I’d pay $42.66, plus I’d have to wait until May

Makes sense! :crazy_face:

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Saw this, too, and went straight to amazon.co.uk and ordered it there. Shipping costs eliminate the discount, but I don’t care as long as I get this early. Kindle edition is available in Germany right now, but hell would have to freeze over before you see me spending money on an e-book…

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I happened to notice just now that “The Battle for Bond” is up for pre-order with a Jan 16th release date on Amazon UK!

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If you don’t already own it - go for it!

It’s a tale of huge ambitions, plans to get rich(-er), save thousands of dollars in taxes, master the art of film-sausage without actually having much experience in the business. And finally a clash of characters, snobbery and greed. Few of the players come out of it unscathed with the notable exception of Jack Wittingham. When Sellers finally came into contact with McClory decades later he uncovered a scene worthy of SUNSET BOULEVARD and decided to research the whole unsavoury story.

Read. This. Book.

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For the same reason I switched to kindle for most books. Also, traveling does not make me do a full workout anymore with bags full of books.

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Arrived today :+1:

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Lucky you! :+1:

45 pages into it.
My advice: get your hands on this asap.

:+1: :+1: :+1:

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