Silva’s Great Guess-My-Kink Discussion

Which is what for me signifies homophobia. Why choose to deal in those stereotypes?

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Thank you very much for a most kind compliment.

It certainly stands out for me–the classic trope of the mother-fixated queer boy–it is almost beyond cliche.

And this is where the emphasis falls for you. The next time I watch SKYFALL I will keep this in mind as a counter-balance to the strong associations that the mother fixation trope has for me.

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But of course.

That’s why it is problematic - its just a character trait for him to be more villainous - its not saying its his only characteristic, its that they choose to use same sex attraction as a villainous attribute for the character - if it was more part of his character beyond the ability for them to make a winking gay sex joke it would be better but as it is its not

yeah i dont think its malicious in intent but its certainly casually homophobic in its approach

Trying to determine intent is tricky–much better to look at patterns, surrounding signifiers, and how the representation fits into the history of such images and representations.

The problem is when people who do not respond to or see the patterns are then accused of being complicit and/or in favor of them. Stops discussion dead and does not advance deeper aesthetic appreciation. For example, as racist as it is, I can still watch THE BIRTH OF A NATION and appreciate Griffith’s formal artistry. My husband, however, cannot do so. He understands the importance of Griffith, but the reality of how those images pervaded culture and had a negative impact on his life prevents him from achieving the distance available to me as a white person.

A similar situation may exist with me and Silva. I like Dustin’s approach (and appreciate it intellectually), but the powerful way Silva inhabits the gay villain stereotype mutes a fuller experience for me.

I’ve been speculating about SPECTRE and how it would have worked if Silva and Blofeld had been lovers. It would have improved Blofeld’s motivation beyond the flimsier Daddy-loved-you-more. Given Waltz a real reason to destroy Bond and his entire world.

Frankly, I don’t see Silva’s homosexuality as making him more villainous; for me it’s merely there. More so than with Q, agreed. But then, I could have ignored it with that character too. I read him as a bit of a hipster nerd, sexuality doesn’t necessarily come into it for me. Is drinking Earl Grey an indicator to homosexuality when you do it in front of a computer screen?

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I agree- it definitely makes the film less enjoyable for me as well - I suspect because we are personally affected by it, i guess thats the thing - unless you know the feelings its easy to say it doesn’t mean anything.

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I never gave it a thought in the film as I just liked the way Bardem delivered the opposite of what I had expected: a rehash of Anton Chiguhr. Silva’s camp nature was a nice way to do this while creating an equally memorable character. I also can’t see how he was gay if Severine was his lover. There are many camp men who are totally straight so I think we shouldn’t make assumptions there just based on his flamboyance and a couple of lines he taunted Bond with when tied up, my fav being, “Or we could eat each other!” :joy:. Personally I always imagined he’d kiss kiss bang bang anything that moved and I love him for it!!!

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Silva is a version of Bond, in almost every respect.

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No clue, but It’s a description of a calm version of my day after my wife gave birth to the kids.

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I had a discussion with a producer once, concerning who to choose as the villain of a crime story. He was very frightened that we choose a woman because he said: “then people will think we hate women and paint them as conniving and cold-blooded opportunists”.

I said: “But this particular female character is not a stand-in for all women as we see them.”

He answered: “Nevertheless, that’s what people will think.”

I still do not agree. A character in a fictional story has to be one thing only: a believable human being. And human beings are fallible and sometimes turn into criminals. Their gender is only one part of their personality amongst many others. So is their sexuality.

And I wonder why sexual preferences so often are immediately chosen as the defining, biggest and most important part of a character’s (or even of a real person’s) identity. To me, that is total rubbish. As a heterosexual man I would not want to be reduced to my preference for women as my main and most important character trait.

Sometimes I get the feeling that reducing someone to their sexuality is equal to reducing someone to the color of their skin, their eyes, their hair, their size, their choice of clothing etc.

It´s only one part amongst many others.

And Silva´s sexuality - whichever it might be - is not defining him at all. What is defining him is his hatred for being abandoned by the country he fought for. And this is the element which Bond can relate to. Bond himself reacts angrily at first, but he chooses to move one. Because he knows that the possibility of being abandoned is part of the job.

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I personally would agree, but people do sometimes define themselves and others by one particular characteristic, something I find hilarious as I would think I’d massively neglected to write a character if you could sum them up with one character trait.

This is why I believe in championing authorship over marketing. I know a Bond movie needs careful marketing, the paradox of my position being that if Eon hadn’t been prioritising marketing all these years then maybe the franchise would’ve gone out with a bang or a whimper.

But it’s editorial choices that are made due to a mediated perception rather than story and character that causes so many films to be far less than they might’ve been.

With all due respect to Eon’s caretakership, just give me the author, or auteurs version every time. If it’s controversial then so be it.

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It would be interesting, no doubt about that.

But it would also most probably create the same situation “Blade Runner 2049” found itself in.

A film, by the way, which I did not like on first viewing - but which I have grown to appreciate and even love in the meantime. Still, the lack of box office appeal has destroyed its chances for any further sequels (which clearly were set up). And Bond needs to go on. (Does that sentence really mean: I need Bond to go on?)

Yes, but your own emotional connection cuts out the views of others by default as it does for the other 7 billion people so you have to consciously consider what others may think, but of course, you arn’t them, you don’t have their personal experiences which colour their world view so realistically the best option is… well, your own comment to a producer above.

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And that beautifully sums up why I love Hitchcock​:clap::clap::clap:

:joy::joy::joy::joy::joy::joy:

Look I appreciate all your points, and gay may leave room for nitpicking so lets just say Silva is an LGBT character… I’m just going to say its very different to someone who lives that and is acutely aware of how people like them are portrayed in the media all the time - it’s very easy for someone who hasn’t lived with it to say “oh they mean nothing by it, it means something else”

Suggest taking a look at https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SissyVillain and https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DepravedHomosexual https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DepravedBisexual where you can see the many many depictions of these stereotypes - incidentally Mr. Silva is on each list (and yes at the point hes rubbing Bond’s thighs seductively, they are portraying him as LGBT of some kind and not Latino)

Note there has never been a positive portrayal of an LGBT character in a Bond film - the negative portrayals arent balanced with positive portrayals - ie: Mr. Wint and Mr. Kidd are depraved murderers who wear too much cologne, Xenia Onatopp is a bisexual serial rapist/murderer who gets sexual pleasure from her killing. Silva is a crazy violent terrorist with mummy issues, Rosa Klebb is probably in there too, Pussy Galore just needed a real man to turn her back to the side of good… So just keep in mind it might be meaningless to you but to another person it might be yet another in a line of nasty portrayals of people like you in a series you try to enjoy

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