The World is Not Enough. Is it really that bad?


#21

He means DAD had to come out before their was an appetite for change, not that DAD was the change.


#22

Ah, got it.

I was ready before that.

Actually, that’s not accurate, either. After DAD (but abetted by TWINE) I was ready to walk away from Bond entirely, in the belief the franchise had become so polluted by commercial considerations and so mired in a cycle of self-cannibalization that the possibility of actual change no longer existed.

I’m not entirely convinced I was in the majority, though. I get the impression DAD was pretty well received by audiences. Maybe I’m remembering wrong?


#23

I liked TWINE, but then again I was introduced to Bond during the Brosnan era. IMO, it’s got a solid plot with well established characters. Granted, it’s not the greatest Bond car from the series but anything is better than the Z3 from GoldenEye.

I don’t have a problem with Denise Richards’ character, because she served her purpose. She was the damsel in distress, made Bond look heroic and kept him warm at night (literally) at the end of the movie.

The villain/villainess twist was brilliant, and still makes Sophie Marceau’s character stand high above the rest for me. The characterisation of her was pure brilliance. She opitimised everything that drilled into Bond’s weaknesses: damaged, beautiful and vulnerable woman - oh how wrong we all were!


#24

Oh no no, what I meant was that we needed DAD fiasco to convince studio managers that a certain revolution is needed. That the formula has to be changed. Hence new opening in Casino Royale. Without DAD there would be no CR. Sorry if I did not express myself.

Not that the formula was the biggest problem of DAD, in my opinion. With a few changes and skipping some of most ludicrous ideas, it would’ve been a decent movie.

PS. Thanks Orion, that’s exactly what I meant.


#25

The one thing I liked about the sequence at the caviar factory was how the BMW got spilt in half. It struck me as a cheeky jab at whomever saddled the filmmakers with yuppie-mobiles for three films in a row, to have two of them end up trashed, one (this one) rather ignominiously.

Yes, but part of this slieght of hand is to make it appear Renard is the main baddie until Elektra usurps that role, revealing Renard as her weak-willed pawn. So as with TLD, we’ve got two half-villains who don’t combine to have the menace of one strong one.


#26

One thing always surprises me: the idea that Denise Richards is unbelievable as a nuclear physicist.

Isn’t it sexist to believe that women in that profession cannot look like her?

Regardless of what one may think of her acting, looking beautiful or even sexy is perfectly fine for people in any profession, IMO.


#27

In real life, sure. Real life is free of the obligation to be realistic. In a motion picture, casting a Baywatch lifeguard type as a nuclear scientist is schlocky and stupid.


#28

Real life is free of the obligation to be realistic?


#29

TWINE is the second-best Brosnan Bond film. Stacked cast of striking characters. Unique locations. Twisting plot.

PLUSES:

  • Robert Carlyle was a great and memorable Renard.

  • Sophie Marceau was as cold as she was sexy as Elektra.

  • Dame Judi’s further appearances as M in her role within the film’s plot is greatly under appreciated.

  • Robbie Coltrane was great as always, “I shall call security… And congratulate them!”

  • Mr. Bullion was served up as a nice kill for Valentin due to his wrongdoings.

  • Settings like the Baku airfield/Elekra’s villa grounds at night, The Devil’s Breath, Istanbul’s Madien’s Tower, the Azerbaijan Oil Rocks, MI6 headquarters in Scotland, and Kazakhstan nuclear testing facility are some of my favorite of the series.

  • The torture chair scene with Bond and Elektra.

  • A decent amount of the plot isn’t too bad. At least it is differs from what preceded it.

  • The attack on Zukovsky’s caviar factory including helicopters wielding giant sawblades (because why not, those are fun).

NEGATIVES:

  • How Zukovsky was killed off kind of sucked.

  • Davidov/Gabor/King are wasted characters

  • The Cigar Girl and her accompanying scenes. “NOT FROM HEEM!”

  • Many of the lines in this movie are… Questionable. In delivery as well as written, specifically from the majority of the supporting characters. (Ex. “The bomb… was a DUWD.” - Gabor)

  • I never understood the point of a total nuclear meltdown all just to allow Elekra to build an oil pipeline… A little drastic, no? I’m sure they could’ve come up with a less complicated plan, excluding overkill.

  • The whole “Daddy didn’t love me and mommy enough” business with Elektra and Sir Robert.

  • Excess scenes that slowed the movie and could’ve been cut down or removed entirely (when Bond is medically cleared, lengthy action sequences, etc.)

  • "The name’s BAHND… fires gun, que theme James BAHND.

I think I covered it all. I like TWINE considerably, but to say it doesn’t have its major flaws would be incorrect. Especially dialogue delivery… There’s a few a mentioned and beyond that I really, really dislike.


#30

I’m a fan, and I started a thread called For TWINE fans only on here a couple of years ago.


#31

First Bond I saw in the cinema, so it’s a special one for me.

It’s not the worst Bond film, it just meanders. Two fantastic things in it: the PTS. I don’t care what anyone says, it’s a bombastic triumph. Oozes Bond. Over-the-top, high stakes, exciting, I’ll never forget the bit when Brozza drops from the balloon and rolls down the Millennium Dome- I was like ‘oh my gaaaaaadddd’ in the cinema. The Garbage song was good but forgettable.

And killing Electra. Amazing, such a great scene and one of Brozza’s best.

The rest of it is toilet though. A how-to-guide on making a ski chase dull. And the rest- dull dull dull.


#32

I don’t think she’s a half villain, I think her plot twist is the beauty of the whole plot. She’s a user. Beautiful, and manipulative in a way that is almost transparent to Bond but she teeters on the edge of ‘woe is me/I don’t need you’. That’s the worst thing for Bond to hear that he is not needed, especially when the person saying it looks like Elektra King!! :joy:


#33

It’s my least favourite film of the Brosnan era. I don’t hate it or anything, but I do think it lacks spark. I also still think they should’ve cut to the title sequence after Bond escapes the building in Bilbao.


#34

They did, then test audiences whinged about the action not being big enough so they moved the titles.

Apted agrees with you btw, he mentions it on his TWINE commentary.


#35

The PTS would’ve been more low key, but I think it would’ve worked rather well. Especially if they added the deleted scene of Renard meeting the Cigar Girl, and then cut to the titles. That would’ve been ominous.

Anyway, here’s my positives:

The Q boat. I love this thing, it’s one of my favorite Bond vehicles. Perhaps because it’s something wholly original. It’s not a modified Glastron or anything. It’s custom made and exclusive to MI6.

The song is underrated. I like the melancholy vibe it has.

The Bond/Warmflash sequence brings Thunderball to mind, which I find rather fun, even though it wouldn’t be deemed appropriate these days.

The final appearance of Desmond Llewelyn has to mean something.

Brosnan’s Bond got to ski, even if the chase itself wasn’t that great.

The return of Valentin gave the Brosnan era more continuity, especially after Jack Wade appeared in Tomorrow Never Dies.

Shooting Davidov from inside the boot. Small scene but pure Brosnan. A smirk, a kick in the face and then two gunshots to the chest.

The pipeline sequence was well done in my opinion. It had a degree of tension and ingenuity. I prefer this to Diamonds Are Forever’s equivalent.

I can appreciate them giving us Brosnan’s version of the CR torture sequence. However the real standout sequence is “I never miss”.

So, yeah. I don’t hate the film, but I don’t watch it that often. I do have somewhat nostalgic feelings though considering I saw the film as a 10 year old and played the video game religiously.


#36

Is it really that bad? Maybe it’s more a situation of, it just really isn’t very good. At all. At least for me. I find it to be the least memorable of all of Brosnan’s outings. Even DAD sticks in my head more, despite it being truly awful.


#37

No kidding. I never have figured out that DAF scene. What’s supposed to kill Bond? Claustrophobia? Suffication? Why not kill him first, then put him in the pipe? And how did the construction workers not notice a sleeping guy in a tuxedo in that pipe? Someone had to tie the cable around the pipe before the crane lifted it up. Why didn’t Bond slide out when it was hoisted off the ground? It’s hard to believe they put so much effort into filming a scene without someone, somewhere stopping to ask, “Why are we doing this?”

The TWINE version is at least more dynamic, though for me it feels like a video game. On the other hand, it did give us that genuinely funny moment where Christmas says, “Someone’s going to have my ass” and Bond answers “First things first” (ie: Don’t get ahead of the script, I’ll bed you in the last reel). Although to be honest, I wasn’t 100% sure it was supposed to be funny, as Brosnan doesn’t lay it on as thick as he does with most of his punchlines.

Or maybe because of it? One thing you have to admit about DAD; it’s pretty unforgettable. :rofl:


#38

There may be great truth in that statement! How can you forget the invisible car and windsurfing that tsunami!


#39

And “Yo momma!”

Believe me, I have tried.


#40

For DAD, the first 68 minutes are epic and building toward the perfect Bond film… and then Bond gets out of the Aston in Iceland and is greeted with “I’m mister Kill.”…

Yeah…