Deathmatch 2022: The Women - Semi-Finals

Voting ends September 7

  • Vesper
  • Tracy

0 voters

  • Pussy
  • Anya

0 voters

Vesper vs. Tracy seems like it could be, for many fans, a Bond version of a sports example of the semifinals feeling like it’s the real finals.

Regardless, my votes are:

Vesper over Tracy
and Anya over Pussy

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My votes are:

Tracy over Vesper for me: Tracy could do so many things that Vesper couldn’t do. We’re very much explored to her character, she’s adventurous and could be with Bond into his adventures, she could drive a car, ride a horse, ski and even knows how to gamble, she even knows how to hold a gun and her fight with Gunther also proves that, she knows how to defend herself without needing Bond, she’s also witty (the way she spokes Poetry at Blofeld and how she easily tricked him), she’s a perfect partner for Bond, Vesper was also a great Bond Girl, but we didn’t got to know what she can do, what she could do, does she have some skills? Her abilities, we’re not that explored much into her character as an individual, sure her chemistry worked with Craig’s Bond, but as an individual character, we didn’t got to know more about this character.

Pussy over Anya for me: Not a fan of these both, but Pussy at least wasn’t a damsel, she showed her toughness and is competent, she’s not just an eye candy or a window dresser, she’s a real femme fatale, she had a lot of skills (one of that was her piloting a plane and led a group of female pilots), she’s a tough woman in her own right, Anya on the other hand was more of a damsel, she’s just there to look beautiful, her absence in the climax also brought her character down for me, she’s good in the egyptian scenes, but the rest of the film she’s doing nothing, had she been in the climax, maybe I would pick her over Pussy, because I think there’s a potential in Anya.

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Including act.

Might be an all Avengers final.

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On a technicality, if they swapped their opponents, Pussy would be gone and we’d be having Vesper vs Tracy final because, despite your assertion, those are the two best actresses. Their non-Bond work is proof of that.

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True for Dame Diana, not sure about Eva Green. She is a fine performer–photogenic and stylish–always hitting her marks. But I have yet to be convinced she is a great actress. Tim Burton used her effectively, but I have not experienced in her that extra dimension that Diana Rigg brought to her roles.

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Dreamers, Franklyn and Penny Dreadful are the roles that leap to mind. Camelot she is clearly ahead of the pack in a huge ensemble (that ensemble was the series downfall, they got commissioned for a second series but it was going to be at least 5 years before even 2 of them were available at the same time again and Starz decided it wasn’t worth it)

Of course she doesn’t have the huge list of credits and acclaim Diana Rigg did at her passing, but a 42 year age gap will do that.

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Vesper vs Tracy is very hard to pick. They are easily the 2 best Bond women in the franchise (movies and books). I go with Vesper only slightly. I rank Casino Royale just over On Her Majesty’s Secret Service, though they are both in my top 3. Anya is in my other top 3 film, but I voted Pussy over her. If only the books were taken into account, I’d go with Tracy.

I have only seen THE DREAMERS (with Bertolucci present, and he stayed around afterwards and spoke to all comers. He was most charming. The only other director I had that experience with was David Cronenberg, who after a screening at the Museum of the Moving Image, sat in the café and anyone could approach and speak with him).

I will look for FRANKLYN, and ask my husband about PENNY DREADFUL–he is the television aficionado in the family.

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I’ve been talking on a Doctor Who forum intermittently, the attitude between discussions is so different…

Penny Dreadful is the one I’d prioritise. It has many Bond alumni in it.

I’m an old fart so Tracy got my vote over Vesper largely by virtue of her being from the “Classic Bond” era. That said, Vesper is easily the stand-out of the post-Tracy years, which is impressive when you consider there were only 7 years of movie Bond before Tracy came along and there have been 53 of them since she left. So I’m already second-guessing my vote; is the more impressive woman the one who was unmatched for so long, or the only one in 5 decades who could compete?

One of my regrets is that Tracy didn’t get the legacy Vesper has enjoyed as “the one who broke his heart.” Except for the occasional nod in less than a handful of films (TWSLM, FYEO and LTK), Tracy’s death left hardly a ripple, while Vesper has continued to influence the events of the Craig era long past her demise. Indeed, she’s such a powerful presence (even in her absence) that when Bond is finally able to “move on” and fall in love again, no one really believes it, at least no one in the audience and on some level I suspect not even Bond himself. I’d be tempted to say Eon’s overdone the fixation on Vesper, except I recall Fleming’s Bond was still brooding over her now and again years into the novels, and there is that drink…

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Tracy’s Bond didn’t get any legacy either. Craig Bond got to mope through two more movies before becoming Robot Bond in SPECTRE, and then was retconned back into mope mode in NTTD.

Tracy is mourned with “We have all the time in the world,” and then she and her Bond disappear from the continuity.

Vesper gets “And the bitch is dead,” followed by the valedictory revelation of her sacrifice–a sacrifice designed to increase her appeal. Tracy is just flat-out sacrificed.

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It’s Ian’s retcon - he’s trying to fix what he thinks is his mistakes. He made Bond different as he changed.

Our partners will hate us if he we meet and we go full Bond…

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Our partners are going to hate us

If books, I’d go with Vesper (her death was handled much better in the book, and I liked that she’s a bit naive in the book that the plot twist was unpredictable and unexpected because it’s not obvious to her personality, in the film the way she outwitted Bond like she’s being too ‘on the nose’, made me smelled the plot twist coming miles away, I also liked that Bond referenced Vesper many times in the books like in Goldfinger when his nearly at his death then he remembered how we would introduce Tilly to Vesper when they’re get to heaven for example, then him visiting her grave in OHMSS).

If films, I’d go with Tracy (Rigg improved the character upon the book, the film version is better, she’s given much more to do and made her relevant to the plot, making her deserving of Bond’s marital, and at least the films made more references to Tracy and the marriage than in the books, the problem was in YOLT Bond was sure grieving at the beginning, but once he went to Japan, it’s all gone, he’s back to his old and joyful self, he even had sex with Mariko Ichiban (a masseuse), then towards the end he’s even reluctant at going to the Castle of Death to kill Blofeld, because he enjoyed staying in Japan with Kissy, he enjoyed her company. Then he suffered Amnesia, and got brainwashed, Tracy was already forgotten, she’s forgotten by the time that Bond arrived in Japan).

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One could argue, Tracy was forgotten even faster in the films. There is a very fleeting anger in Bond at the beginning of DAF, but we’re never told why. Then she gets the briefest of mentions in TSWLM and is only name dropped once following OHMSS (the PTS of FYEO). Vesper casts a shadow over the next 4 films just like she does in the books. The reason I’d go with book Tracy, is that her backstory is much more fleshed out and, in turn, far more tragic. Having just lost her child, her severe depression is much more understandable.

LTK and TWINE do make vague references to her (the latter being particularly so) but, yeah, the shadow of Vesper looming over the era at times seems like they regretted that the films didn’t make more use of Tracy.

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I think it’s a bit OTT as a backstory, it’s already fine in the film that she already lost her husband that in effect, she’s finding love, she’s longing for love that she didn’t found in her former Husband (A Count) that she found in Bond, a man who could guarantee the love that she need, a man who could truly love her unlike her Count Husband.

She attempt to suicide because of that, she’s fooled by this man whom she thought would love her, plus the thing that she also lost her mother at the young age made her a bit rebellious, she didn’t experienced the guidance of a mother, the love of a mother that she’s felt incomplete because of that.

Her losing a child I think was too much.

Every backstory doesn’t need to be overly dramatic, think of Tiffany Case’s backstory in DAF novel, it’s simple, yet it worked, because it’s a lot more realistic that it’s not trying hard to be dramatic, or the backstory of Camille Montes in QoS.

I’ll repeat again, in the books, Tracy was forgotten more faster in the books, and very quick by the time Bond went to Japan, he’s been amnesiac and brainwashed, that Tracy’s memories are already gone so easily, unlike in the films where at least he’d still remembered her, so I definitely prefer the films, there’s a lot of references to her that the books didn’t have.

Bond’s reaction to the Hotel Receptionist in San Monique when he told him that Mrs. Bond is waiting for him in LALD, Bond’s reaction in TSWLM, him visiting her grave in FYEO, Bond’s reaction in LTK and when even Elektra asked him if he ever lost a loved one in TWINE, heck even in GE when Trevelyan told Bond about those women he failed to protect line, there’s a lot of references.

Vesper’s death might overshadowed Craig Bond’s era, but Tracy overshadowed an era of three Bond actors (Moore, Dalton and Brosnan).

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