Emotional storytelling - before and after the reboot

This is certainly one of the hottest topics among Bond fans and very relevant for the series going forward. I want to get a clearer picture of this. I was thinking about this now that I want to watch OHMSS with my girlfriend and tell her that this is that one time that Bond cried, making this a bit of a shocking movie like it was for me when I first saw it. And then I thought, well at least if you count the first 20 movies, because he also cries in CR, SF and NTTD.

So emotional storytelling is at the core of the Craig era, but it gets heavily criticized by many fans, including me. Emotional storytelling was however nothing new in the Bond films prior to Craig, but the length in which the Craig era wanted to go was definitely something very new. So I would like to compare how the first 20 movies approached this compared to the Craig era.

Part 1: First 20 films

Now prior to OHMSS, there is little emotional storytelling as far as our main character is concerned. Connery’s Bond is very much the coldest and most enigmatic of them all, but he certainly does have his more down to earth slightly emotional moments in all of his first four films (saying to Honey that he is scared in DN, his reaction to Kerim’s death, his reaction to Jill’s death, him telling Domino about her brother). In YOLT he seems even more emotionally distant but that might also be because of Connery’s performance.

Then OHMSS is of course the film with the most emotional core of the first 20 films. It’s a tragic love story, but it’s done in such a superb subtle way. We’re not told by anyone in the film that Bond lives a sad life, his life choices aren’t questioned, we’re not being read his psychological report, we’re not being told how his character is the result of a traumatic childhood. He’s just basically…Connery’s Bond. Cool and confident as ever. But it’s Connery’s Bond slowly becoming a changed man and choosing a different life in the end. And it’s done with such a great show-don’t-tell approach that in my opinion is masterful storytelling and filmmaking. Louis Armstrong’s We Have All The Time In The World is romantic but also ironic and tragic. Because Bond doesn’t have all the time in the world, he can never have that with his job. Even if he does want to settle down, his past will always come back to haunt him, reflected in the best possible way with the main villain of three out of the first five Connery films (four out of five if you count DN where Blofeld did not feature but was of course the leader pulling the strings behind the scenes). The film is not overly dark or melodramatic, it’s very much a fun Bond adventure in many ways with all the charm and fantasy elements. But it’s all shattered in that final scene, no big epic dramatic death scene, just a very cold heartbreaking ending. It feels like the climax of all the first 6 Bond films, after the fun, fantasy and Bond’s unbreakable character, it just falls apart in this one moment. It’s like Bond finally feeling the consequences of his life as a 00 agent.

Then…DAF happens. And it’s the complete opposite of OHMSS. Blofeld is back, but there’s no direct mention of the events of OHMSS, no emotional storytelling. Then many films into the Moore era Blofeld is back again in FYEO, but now it seems as though we’re following the OHMSS timeline and not the DAF one. In addition, in DAF Blofeld is played by someone who played a different character just two movies prior in YOLT (a film which featured Blofeld) and in FYEO Blofeld has the same voice as Largo in TB. Is this bad storytelling? Definitely, it’s a complete mess. I guess you could sort of explain things away. I’ve heard the theory somewhere that none of the ‘’Blofelds’’ in DAF is actually the real one, and that the real one was just into the wheelchair this entire time behind the scenes. But to be fair, a lot of things were outside of EON’s control here. Lazenby left before they could make the OHMSS sequel, and carrying over Lazenby’s emotional arc from OHMSS back to Connery in DAF wouldn’t have worked. I guess they could have done it if they didn’t bring back Connery and maybe had Moore for DAF, but still it wouldn’t have made the necessary emotional impact. And then of course there was the whole Mcclory issue which prevented Blofeld’s return and more of an emotional payoff later down the line in TSWLM. And last but not least, continuity and building a story over multiple films was not the producer’s priority at the time. So yes, what came after OHMSS is not emotional storytelling done well, but to be fair a lot of this was outside of EON’s control. The original script for DAF would’ve been a clear sequel to OHMSS if it starred Lazenby and it would’ve made for one of the most emotional Bond films ever.

Now with Moore, we do get our fair bit of subtle but effective emotional storytelling. There’s of course the mention of Tracy in TSWLM and FYEO is probably the most emotional of Bond films along with OHMSS up to that point. And it’s interesting how FYEO is kind of Bond being haunted by his past and the whole theme of revenge. That is why Bond finally getting his revenge on Blofeld in the pre-title scene is just such brilliant storytelling. Many people might think of this pre-title scene of clearing up some loose ends unrelated to the rest of the story, but thematically it’s very much related. Bond doesn’t want Melina to go down the same path as him, even though Bond himself doesn’t question his decision to kill Locque in cold blood as an act of revenge. This is the path that he has chosen for himself. He can’t go back to have this quiet life that he dreamed of with Tracy, he doesn’t have all the time in the world. He has to get the job done, even if it’s done in a very dirty way. But he doesn’t want Melina to become the same as him. Again, it’s done subtly. There are no in-your-face lines about Bond’s hard life or tragic past, the movie doesn’t tell us to feel sorry for the man, but you can’t help but do especially when we see him bring flowers for Tracy. Subsequent Moore films do show Bond as being a bit more down to earth than he was during the 70’s. There was definitely an attempt with John Glen to go a bit more back to OHMSS’ approach to the character, rather than the sarcastic DAF approach which was used mostly in the early Moore era. No OP and AVTAK aren’t exactly very emotionally driven films, but there’s definitely a difference in the completely crazy way Bond risks his life to save both Octopussy and Stacey in a way that is not relevant to him accomplishing his mission. I somehow don’t see the very sarcastic Bond of the early seventies Guy Hamilton movies going so far as he did there. It certainly makes the finales of those John Glen films more dramatic.

Now Dalton in TLD in my opinion feels like a smooth continuation of what came before, with the only difference being that Dalton’s Bond feels a bit more intense and romantic, but it’s not like we haven’t seen these sides of the character in the Moore era (TMWTGG, TSWLM and OP are good examples). LTK is really where the emotional storytelling takes forefront, this time a revenge mission involving Bond’s best friend. Now again, like with the whole Blofeld thing, the continuity of the series hurts the film a bit. David Hendison is great as Felix Leiter, but at this point the character was portrayed by a different actor each time. Hendison did of course play Felix previously alongside Moore, but we just saw a very different version of Leiter during Dalton’s first film. I think this makes it hard to really have that emotional investment in the character that this film needed, but I think it works for us hardcore Bond fans, it definitely does for me anyway. LTK also makes a mention of Tracy, which also works for the film theme of this particular film, because Bond’s best friend suffers a similar fate to Bond in OHMSS. And we see Bond as we would have seen him if DAF had been a revenge-themed sequel. And it’s great, Bond is at the coldest he’s ever been, he’s rogue for the first time (back when this was something fresh and original) and Dalton delivers a magnificent emotionally satisfying performance.

The Brosnan era takes a very interesting turn after this, and I am very certain this was because of Barbara Broccoli’s influence taking over as head producer alongside Michael Wilson. The Brosnan era, more than ever before, wants to tell us who Bond is. GE in many ways was revolutionary for the series, but it also had this familiarity to it. It did feel like a logical continuation of what came before in the 80’s. But we had Bond facing a former friend and fellow 00 agent as the main villain. Never before has the relationship between main character and main villain been this dramatic, and it works brilliantly. We learn about Bond’s parents and in a rare moment for the first 20 films we have a moment where his life as a 00 agent is questioned during the beach scene. I also do think it’s a bit of a shame that the original line of Trevelyan directly mentioning Tracy was cut from the GE script, as I think this would’ve brought an extra interesting layer to these characters’ relationship. But at the same time the film isn’t necessarily more dramatic than it should be. Bond is still very much a mystery character here, the character is as cool and cold as ever. The film is a lot of fun. And something that I love about the Brosnan era is that Bond is able to move on very quickly from hard-hitting emotional moments. Subsequent Brosnan films all have their down earth hard-hitting moments (TND with Paris Carver, TWINE with Bond and Elektra’s relationship and betrayal and Bond being captured for months in DAD after which he’s accused of betraying MI6), but Brosnan’s Bond seems like he’s man living the moment, he can move on without being haunted. His life choices are sometimes questioned, but he’s never someone the films want us to feel sorry for. He’s a hero of our wildest imagination, not a victim or psychological case study.

So to sum it up. The first 20 films take a more subtle approach to emotional storytelling and this is in my opinion the way that works best for Bond. The thing that mostly hurts it is the lack of continuity, no full sequel to OHMSS or consistency with the casting of key characters such as Blofeld and Felix, as well as changing actors for Bond himself (between YOLT and LALD, a crucial point in the series for emotional storytelling, we went from Connery to Lazenby back to Connery and then to Moore).

Part 2: The Craig era

The Craig era takes a bit from Brosnan’s approach, questioning Bond’s character, Bond having his emotional moments, telling a bit about his past. But the Craig era, apart from taking these aspects to a whole new level, also has a key difference. Bond in the Craig era is a victim, a tragic figure, a man the films want us to pity. Brosnan was not.

This starts with CR. Where Bond is portrayed somewhat of a victim of the system. It works with the story the film wants to tell. And at the same time, the character retains a lot of his charm and fun here. I always feel that CR still carries over a bit of Brosnan era lightness and style, maybe it helped that it had a director in Martin Campbell that had already successfully introduced Bond in a very tonally balanced film with GE. The character also has a very good character development on a level not seen since OHMSS, with Bond going from cold to emotional to cool and confident in that final scene. I do feel OHMSS does a lot of these things better and more effectively. I prefer OHMSS subtly over CR’s epic romantic tragedy, but it works and it’s a great reintroduction to the character. But I do feel that the level in which films like OHMSS and CR go with their emotional journeys should not be something that should become the series go-to approach. These films work because these aspects are rare, or at least were rare at the time.

QOS is, at least in my opinion, such a disappointing sequel. I’ve said this before in other threads, but it feels like the formula for the Craig era is the ‘’becoming Bond’’ arc. Bond has to become the character we all know and love through his character development in the film. QOS just basically resets the character to where he was in the beginning for CR and it’s again very much about how Bond is a victim of this life he has chosen. QOS however removes the character even further from how he was portrayed during the first 20 films, as the film only retains the harder and darker elements of CR, but not the lighter and fun elements. Nothing to suggest he’s now the cool and confident Bond we all know and love as CR’s ending implied, besides dressing a bit more appropriately Bondian. Combine that with the whole revenge angle and it makes the character feel so miserable to the point I’m really not entertained anymore. The good thing about QOS however, is that it closes off the whole Vesper story and in doing so it doesn’t ruin anything for the overarching story. Rather it actually established something interesting for the next films (that was never fully utilized). That means, love it or hate it, the film doesn’t really damage the series…unlike the next films.

I absolutely loved SF when it came out. It felt like a return to form, a return to classic Bond. But that was because I ignored all the problems this film had. So after having a Bond that just became 007 during the first two films, we now have a Bond that is over-the-hill, an old dog. The film is so ridiculously badly written, yet it’s praised as one of the best in the series, with many praising its writing. I don’t get it. Why did Bond decide to just chill out after failing the mission? It wasn’t his fault after all. Why is Bond suddenly depressed after failing the mission? Why is M a complete idiot in this film? She literally sacrificed the lives of dozens of innocent people during the court scene, just sitting there while she knew Silva was coming. Silva’s plan doesn’t make any sense and his whole scheme besides killing M is completely abandoned midway for no reason. Q is a complete moron for making such amateur mistakes in his position. And worst of all, the film celebrates as if Bond actually accomplished something in the end, while he failed all of his objectives. He lost the drive, Silva succeeded in killing M and putting himself out of his misery, and he destroyed his childhood home, he didn’t even get the girl. The only thing he accomplished is that he survived, but really Silva (or his SPECTRE superior Blofeld/Oberhauser as we find out in the next film) didn’t want Bond dead. What is there to celebrate? What is there to smile about? The answer is: cheap emotional storytelling. The film goes into Bond’s childhood trauma, while also doing the whole ‘’becoming Bond’’ story arc all over again, properly finishing off with the gunbarrel at the end to mark him now being the real James Bond. It’s the emotional drama that matters, not the plot. And I don’t know but things like showing Bond very explicitly crying over M just feels…very out of character. When OHMSS had Bond being emotionally shattered it was shocking, something we never thought we’d see or ever see again. Yet in the Craig era it became part of the formula, as he cries again in the finale of NTTD. The film tries to hit the point too hard home that M is a mother figure to Bond, but this once again makes Bond feel too much a victim of the system he basically grew up in rather than the cold secret agent who’s always in control like he used to be. And that’s the thing I get with the Craig era, it’s like he’s never in control. Everything just happens to him, everyone seems to know who he is, everyone already knows everything about him. There’s no mystery anymore. Bond doesn’t feel like a secret agent anymore. It doesn’t even matter if he fails the mission anymore. It’s not about Bond winning. It’s not about the larger than life escapism any more. It’s not even about the plot anymore. It’s about a victim trapped in a system and the emotional storytelling that can be told with that.

SP is the first film in the Craig era that really embraces all the classic elements, it feels for the most part fully comfortable being a Bond film and actually has Craig’s Bond being fully confident and cool for a change. He finally fully feels like Bond. But then the film makes so many crucial missteps, all for the take of once again: cheap emotional storytelling. Making Blofeld Bond’s stepbrother, having a woman psychologically evaluating Bond and questioning Bond’s life choices and him then finally quitting in the end. Nothing about Bond’s evil stepbrother being behind the events of the previous films makes any sense, it’s just more of SF’s cheap emotional storytelling.

NTTD is a combination of everything wrong with the Craig’s era approach to emotional storytelling and modern movies as a whole. It’s once again ‘’becoming Bond’’, it’s once again the villain having some sort of personal connection and being obsessed with Bond, it’s once again Bond making ridiculous mistakes (I mean was he really fooled by Blofeld’s deception in the pts?), it’s once again the over the top drama, it’s once again Bond being a victim, it’s once again Bond crying in the end. But the film also tries to make Bond more likable and less offensive, because that was what the movie industry was unfortunately obsessed with at the time. And now to make it more dramatic he even has a daughter, which effectively removes all the fantasy around the character and brings him into domestic territory, making him feel far too real. And I won’t even get to the ending, which is completely pointless and only drives the point home that this Bond would rather give up than live to fight another day. He’s finally put out of his misery.

Part 3: Conclusion

Bond as a mysterious fantasy hero with the occasional subtle emotional moments vs Bond as the tragic victim. Subtle drama vs highlighted drama. The Craig era chose the latter, and this is very clearly highlighted by Barbara Broccoli in interviews including during the Everything or Nothing documentary, and it becomes clear that this is how she views and wants to have the character portrayed. But is this just another way of approaching the character or is it a fundamental betrayal of the character and what he stands for? I think it’s the latter. I feel that Barbara especially (but maybe Micheael Wilson also at times) just took things too seriously. I don’t know if this had something to do with stuff like her disapproval of Bond video games or parodies like the Austin Powers or Johnny English movies and the fear of not being taken seriously. It’s often said it was because of the times, current cinema trends and going back to Fleming, but I’ve never completely bought this as an explanation as to why the Craig era had to lean this hard into making Bond a tragic figure. I think it has more to do with what Barbara wanted the series to be ever since she took over as producer and what kind of cinema she likes, which is dramatic, emotional storytelling. I’ve seen some behind-the-scenes material from the Brosnan era, and it’s really the thing that she keeps emphasizing even back then. But this is not what Bond was ever supposed to be, not even in the novels. A lot of people have some ideas about the novels and about who the character is, and many people like to point to the darker and grittier elements. But the truth is that Bond has a lot of character development over the course of the books, there’s no definitive way to portray Bond (not even Dalton did, he mostly portrayed Bond according to the earlier novels where Bond was much more of a dark serious character compared to later novels). And I would argue that going so far as the Craig era is effectively betraying what this franchise (both the books and films) stand for and that is escapism. Not too much looking to the past, not too much psychological struggles, an escape from everyday life’s problems such as family, paying bills or mental issues. Fleming wrote Bond as a way into a fantasy. Yes he did put some of his own struggles into the character, but the character was meant to be an escape from those struggles, being able to rise above that. A mysterious fantasy, not a tragic victim.

But what do you think? Obviously the Craig era approach was highly successful among general audiences, but it leaves the hardcore fanbase very divided. Was it at least better than some of the older attempts at emotional storytelling of the first 20 films with its messy continuity or did it go too far? What is the approach you think the series should and will take going forward?

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Sure the Craig era did boffo box-office, but do we know how much of that was the result of the emotional drama and tragedy shoe-horned into the proceedings? Most of the praise I hear for Craig involves him being “believably lethal,” “convincing as a killer,” “biggest badass since Connery” or “Fleming’s ‘blunt instrument.’” I didn’t often hear anyone exiting the theater saying things like, “I was moved by the crying stuff” or “it’s awesome how he never really gets over Vesper” or “Yes! He got his heart stomped on again!”

For me, all the “emotional” stuff feels grafted on. It’s not what I go to see a Bond film for, and it may be heresy, but I don’t think Craig is particularly good at selling it, anyway. 90% of the time his facial affect is set somewhere between “Vulcan” and “Terminator.” You can roll a raindrop down a statue’s cheek but you won’t convince me it’s sad.

The main problem with trying to force emotional stakes onto the Bond formula is that in between those “peeling back the layers” scenes, he’s doing things like shrugging off gunshot wounds and grenade blasts, falling 300 feet off a bridge, etc. Or in Brosnan’s case, he’s following up the “humanizing” moments by surfing a tsunami, stopping his heartbeat on demand, etc. In the end, both the “emotion” and the superheroics fall flat – or earn eye-rolls – because they can’t co-exist.

I don’t have advice for Amazon going forward, other than to say: tap into Bond’s chief appeal, and that is wish-fulfillment. We should exit the film wishing we were James Bond, not being thankful that we aren’t.

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Why wasn’t the „emotional storytelling“ front and center in earlier eras as it is common and obligatory now?

Because subtlety was considered high quality. Let the viewers answer questions instead of bombarding the audience with dialogue which leaves nothing unanswered.

And really, isn’t all storytelling emotional? Spoiler: it has to be, simply because that’s where a story gets its hooks in you.

But you don’t have to spell it out.

OHMSS does so many things right in order to evoke an emotional response.

The later eras do, too, no argument. But telling us about Bond being a blunt instrument or have him cradle M‘s body with tears in his eyes is not the only choice the filmmakers had in their arsenal to convey Bond‘s inner life. Only in the 00‘s onwards it was considered the best choice, fearing audiences would not get it otherwise.

Currently, the use of „second screens“ during the viewing of a film or tv show has increased so much that „emotional storytelling“ has become the most important goal - rational reception of the audio visual composition is over. Just concentrate on the basics, repeat those beats in case the audience did not pay attention. And spell out everything former audiences loved to think about long after the film had ended - because these days they will have moved on to the next piece of entertainment the algorithm has spit out.

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Depressingly, most times in a cinema in the last 20 years wouldn’t exactly say that assumption about the audience is wrong…

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Some random thoughts…

Actually, the revenge angle has been present from the very beginning of literary Bond when he vows to himself to hunt down SMERSH after he read Vesper’s letter (which also left his eyes wet, we mustn’t forget). During briefing on his next mission M points out Mr Big belongs to SMERSH, to which Bond responds he’d like to meet him and any member of SMERSH. Bond’s motivation is no secret and M duly decides to use it.

When Bond is tortured by Odd Job and has every reason to believe he won’t survive this, his cold comfort is that M will send the next 00 - probably the careful 008 - after Goldfinger and give him free rein to avenge Bond in return.

Even Bond keeping mum about Doctor Shatterhand’s true identity and killing him and Bunt himself is never held against him by M (though in all fairness his attempt to kill his boss is easily the worse offence and consequently - in the canon - he’s briefed by Tanner about the revenge mission against Scaramanga and doesn’t talk face to face to M again).

So up to a point Bond’s adventures on the page and on the screen (Quarrel, Kerim, the Masterson sisters, countless other sacrificial lambs since) have always included that revenge angle and one might argue M and the Service are well aware what drives Bond in these missions and have no problem with it (as long as the outcome is favourable for Bond’s masters).

As for the ‘emotional’ storytelling, that’s certainly a valid accusation. Bond was thought up by a middle-aged Lothario trying to get over his jimjams for marrying at 45 and becoming a father. It’s daydreaming in light of the dreary perspective of a settled life in not exactly happy circumstances. While Fleming’s widow was certain he was killed by Bond I wouldn’t want to speculate how Fleming’s fate might have played out without him…

It’s true Fleming wrote Bond at times surprisingly sentimental - like when he muses how to explain Tilly to Vesper of all people (and ‘the others’: girls Bond knew who didn’t survive to tell the story) when he’s sure they are on their way to Heaven’s gates - but Fleming was already 50 when he wrote that and the thought of running out of time to make good on past mistakes begins to force its way into the heart of men at that age.

In On Her Majesty’s he would let us know Bond visited Vesper’s grave every year in September and in the summer following the release of You Only Live Twice Fleming went on a road trip to Europe and tried to reconnect with a former girlfriend he had ditched on the orders of his overbearing mother 30 years before. His ‘in’ was including her name in Bond’s obituary, so he might have nursed hopes to meet her again for some time, but she refused to see him anyway.

While this background seems like the self pitying antics of an old egotist towards what he feels will be his final days, from a narrative perspective Tracy’s death in On Her Majesty’s and Bond avenging her in the next book are, in my opinion, masterful.

The added dimension of the hero not succeeding, of going to pieces over his dead wife, then being ‘reborn’ from the flames of Blofeld’s castle and the black waters beneath, lifts Bond above the faceless crowd of dime store heroes. Without these highlights 007 might have been long forgotten. In the hands of a lesser author - Mickey Spillane in The Girl Hunters/The Snake - the device could be a pointless gimmick. Bond though turns into a truly tragic hero who would have earned his blissful amnesia and quiet life as a fisherman.

So there, some emotional storytelling from early on, and it gets worse as the books march on. But did the films have to pick this up? For a long time the script to OHMSS looked more in line with that of YOLT, only as the production moved closer to starting without Connery Eon decided to stay closer to the book (and keep the budget down). Some critics even suggested Bond and Tracy could have acted as modern Nick&Nora, completely missing the point.

But who knows where Eon might have gone had the film been a success with Connery and Deneuve or Bardot. History is only a fix after the fact; when it happens every possible outcome is…possible.

The producers took one of the best books and turned it into one of the best films in the series. Can’t do much better, no? The circumstances were not favourable though and that would shape the series for the next decade or two. For many years Eon would claim they wanted back to Fleming and FRWL - but there’d also be the tacit understanding they wanted to avoid the lashing of OHMSS.

The accusation against the Moore years was that the character of Bond was supposedly missing. For a large part this was actually unfair to Moore and to his films. But it was what the feuilleton unanimously agreed on, so they kept writing it until Moore’s age became the even better charge.

Evidently what’s written about Bond is also read by the powers that be. When we later heard about ‘peeling back layers’ this wasn’t actually unwelcome with fans. Many - me included I must confess - felt for a long time there might be interesting material in the originals the films hardly used. But that was because book and film are two fundamentally different things.

I suppose Eon’s (90s Eon’s) reasoning went along the lines that, while the competition has become adept at staging thrills and action, the unique selling point of their property was Bond, the character. As opposed to Bond, the unique mix of thrills, adventure and bizarre hilariousness with an unexpected twist. The idea must have been stuck somewhere inside Eon house and later, during the Brosnan era, tried to find its way onto the screen with varying success.

Craig’s run was just the logical conclusion. What if Bond was a real human being? Well, if he was he’d quit, no?

Insofar I don’t think they mis-sold their last five films. There is a kind of step-by-step process leading from DR NO to NO TIME TO DIE. Very true, you’d never expect the first frames of Connery to lead to the last few frames of Craig. But evidently they did and it’s up to us how we agree with this development.

Is that, was that a ‘betrayal’ of the franchise?

Phew, I don’t know if you can betray a commercial enterprise as such when you’re the property owner. You can disappoint your customers, anger and infuriate them. But betrayal? When everything we see on the screen is make-believe, fx and cgi anyway? It’s a show and the only thing we get to decide is whether we buy a ticket or not. Refunds are usually not a thing in show business.

Personally, I’d have been more intrigued had they been even bolder: What if Bond realises he’s a fictional character? But that would likely have been even more controversial.

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They’ll wait until that plot point features heavily in Austin Powers 4 and then they’ll make it the basis for the grand, multi-movie scheme of the next incarnation of Blofeld.

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Very true. This has been an important aspect of the films from the beginning. Though in earlier films Bond’s revenge was mostly part of his missions as well like you point out.

Defenitely understandable and I think the Brosnan era actually approached this perfectly. Exploring at the time fresh concepts (personal connections to the villains, Bond’s past, Bond going rogue, questioning aspects of Bond’s life), yet not going too far and keeping Bond well in line with his predecessors. The Brosnan era has for the longest time been viewed as over-the-top and too action-focused, but for me it’s the most underrated era of the series. Fresh and original at the time, but the fun and fantasy is still there. Brosnan Bond did something different with the character without making him a victim of the system he’s stuck in.

Which is the exact opposite of what Bond used to be in the first 20 films. We get five films of a guy who hates his job. And yes I can perfectly understand why he does and the point the Craig era wants to make with this. They want to make him more reletable. The point is I don’t think Bond was ever meant to be a relatable character. A real man, yes. But as David_M pointed out, the point of the character used to be wish-fulfillmen. And the rare times this was challanged used to be impactful because of the contrast.

Betrayal is a bit of a strong term I agree. The producers can do whatever they want with Bond, even make him the complete opposite in every way to the literary character. It’s their product. They can go as ‘‘bold’’ as they want. They can make him an alien or a robot if they want to as far as I’m concerned. But I think audience can draw a line when the product is so far removed to what they expect. I personally don’t go to watch a Bond films to see a physchological case study. But this is all subjective of course.

Speaking of betrayal. I would say that objectively NTTD is a literal betrayal, because it literally says ‘‘James Bond will return’’ after we just saw him die. That’s basically saying that nothing about that film really mattered anyway. Bond is not going to have a daughter or be a zombie or ghost in the next Bond film obviously. So the ending of NTTD is inconsequential. To compare to one of my other favorite franchises, I’ve never been a fan of Captain Kirk having a son and dying in the Star Trek movies, but at least there these storylines meant something in the grander scheme of things. But NTTD’s ‘‘bold’’ choices will have no impact on the franchise going forward. I would have been sort of fine if NTTD just said ‘‘James Bond will not return’’. It would have been the funniest thing to come out of the Craig era honestly.

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It’s tying off the CraigBond microverse from everything before and after. Which is ironic given how heavily the era from SKYFALL onwards leaned into the past and how hard it tried to reenact it as a Treehouse of Horror/mirror universe thumbnail homage of exactly what the original series up to Dalton offered.

Actually, does it matter? It’s in the past now, nothing they did needs to affect what may lie ahead of Bond in the future. Eon had no intention of letting Bond’s death prevent them from doing more Bond - and now likewise Amazon isn’t bound by it.

Of course it matters to us fans in discussions like these. But in the greater scheme of things problems like the theatre market weakness are more consequential than anything the Craig films did or didn’t do with the character.

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It’s not a betrayal, it’s (in hindsight) a movie which ends a whole era, knowing that even after killing Bond there will be a future film restarting the whole thing.

I am absolutely sure that EON knew they would stop after NTTD, and everything about that movie was a farewell.

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That’s indeed what it looks like now, they knew they were going to quit after Craig. It just needed the right buyer.

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Indeed. It’s a necessary film the more I think about it. The end of an era. Everything that happened to Craig Bond and his supporting cast did happen and won’t be undone. Amazon surely can’t be viewing Bond 26 as a narrative continuation. CR has nothing to do with DAD - they just started a new story. Just as IO Interactive are doing with First Light. The franchise always returns, just in a different form.

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I was grateful that NTTD gave a definitive ending to the Craig timeline. I always considered it divorced from the rest of the series anyway and closing the loop made that official for me: Craig-Bond has a beginning and an end (even if they somehow skipped the middle between QoS and SF to begin a three-picture long end). I think a lot of fans who feel “betrayed” by NTTD’s ending do so because they interpret it as “killing Bond.” But it’s not; it’s killing Craig’s Bond, and there’s a difference. To me, it’s like if they killed off Chris Pine’s Captain Kirk: maybe interesting, but ultimately irrelevant. (Which may be why all it got from me was a “meh” when they tried it in “Into Darkness”)

Could they have done a better job of it? Absolutely? Is it horrible that it happened at all? Not to me, if only because whatever else might happen from here on in, that version of the character can’t return.

Also, I’m still deciding how interested I am in showing up for whatever it is Amazon decides to do, and it’s nice to have a clean jumping off point. I made the mistake of continuing with Marvel after the perfect stopping point that was “Endgame.” Not sure I want to make the same mistake again.

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I think that last bit of my post was taken a bit more serious than intended, I meant it mostly as a joke. Of course I know the intention behind it and that they will reboot the whole thing. Still, the iconic ‘‘James Bond will return’’ does lose a lot of meaning there. It was always something that symbolized survival, a sort of comfort for the audience that this same hero will be back. And I don’t know, but killing off your main character and then saying he will be back a few minutes later just feels incredibly stupid and unnecessarily confusing for casual fans.

Not sure I agree there. All the casual fans I’ve spoken to believe Bond is dead for good and a lot of people are extremly confused why they kill him off and then say he wil be back in the end credits. Not to mention Bond being a father now. It did make an impact. NTTD changed audience’s perception of Bond in a big way, for better or for worse. The series has recovered from going too far into certain directions before (not necessarily saying these were bad directions), but I am not sure how Bond can recover from this without the family drama and tragic victim character aspect becoming an permanent aspect of the movies and the character going forward, whether it’s produced by EON or not. And for me personally this is too far removed from the core appeal of this franchise.

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DC Comics had a similar problem in the early 90s when they killed off Superman. It made all the papers and TV shows, fueling a sales bonanza when people who’d lost interest in the character – or comics – years earlier decided to buy copies of the "last” issue. But then of course DC brought him back to life, only the news outlets don’t care nearly as much about “he’s back” as they did “he’s dead,” so for years afterwards, if I brought up Superman comics, people would say, “Do they still print those? Isn’t he dead?” Gimmicks that work well in the short run have a way of working against you in the long haul. And yes, that means I see Bond’s death in NTTD as a gimmick.

I don’t know about that. I think before Craig, when the public heard “James Bond,” they thought of hat-throwing henchmen, volcano lairs, gadget-laden supercars, tuxedos in casinos, babes in bikinis and vodka martinis. And now, five years on from the end of the Craig era, I think the general public still thinks of those same things when you say “James Bond.” I question whether the Craig era reshaped the public perception of the character and franchise in any lasting way. But maybe that’s just me.

I do agree, however, that having Bond die means you can’t ever do it again, and bringing him back from the dead means there’s even less suspense to be wrung from “perilous situations” than there was at the height of the Connery/Moore era. Now Bond not only has adamantium plot armor, he’s also got a “get out of the grave free” card.

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James Bond is bigger than the Craig era, definitely.

So everything that came before and defined the films in the public eye will live on there.

Yes, some may remember CraigBond dying. But most people will forget even that. If we believe it or not - there are many casual audience members who have not even seen NTTD.

If Amazon does a great enough job at marketing the next phase, people will remember that more than the Craig era.

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Craig era is its own self thing. Bond had already established that it’s not marvel, it can be both strict and fluid at the the same time.

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I agree and I am just as ready to mark the Craig era as it’s own seperate universe thing and move on. I’ve always considered the Craig era to be seperate from the rest of the series anyway, and part of the reason is just simply because Craig is not my idea of Bond, even though I was fully on board with him in the role after CR. But I do fear that elements of the Craig era such as having Bond as a tragic victim, family drama and the ‘‘becoming Bond’’ angle might just be permament elements for future Bond films.

In the past the series was able to move on from hollowed out volcanos lairs after YOLT, from a romantic tragedy after OHMSS, from Bond in space after MR, from overly dark after LTK, from invisible cars and tsunami surfing after DAD. None of these permanantly hurt the series. But will Bond be able to move on from 5 films being a miserable character who hates his job, having a family and essentially comitting suicide in the end? I hope so. I hope Amazon’s first Bond film will be business as usual with all the traditional elements and will have me leave the theatre wishing I could be that guy again. But the Craig era and especially NTTD might mean we will have endless reboots and personal family drama from now on. Some of the behind the scenes dicussions that I’ve heard about Amazon’s plans seem to be pointing in the direction, but I would love to be proven wrong.

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It’s not just you. It happened, and on we move. All demonstrates there’s more fluidity in the concept and capacity for an imaginative angle than the conveyor belt in the 1980s suggested at the time.

One might not like the imaginative angle they went down most recently, but it was at least stimulating, for better or worse.

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This.

If the Craig era influenced anything then not so much Bond as the idea what a Bond film could be as a creative range.

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Reports of James Bond’s death, even by those in charge of James Bond, have been greatly exaggerated. It’s only us lot who remember the detail of this rubbish; in due course No Time to Die will be just “the one in which he dies”, and as significant to the wider public wanting some light entertainment as “the one in which he fights Jaws on The Moon”, “the one in which he’s really racist” (doesn’t narrow it down) and “the one that’s a bit crap and embarrassing” (also doesn’t really narrow it down). We may feel some curating of the purity of instrument is our self-imposed burden; no-one else gives a damn and there are more of those that will watch the next Bond shoved at them, than there are of us.

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