Safin didn’t win though. His goals were a little vague but they involved nanobots and Madeline. Bond was at most a tertiary objective. He may have died but he did so thwarting Safin’s scheme.
However there was a much better received Bond film where the villain did win. That film was of course Skyfall. Silva’s goal there was clear; kill M. She ended up dead so that was a victory for the bad guy.
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That film was of course Skyfall. Silva’s goal there was clear; kill M. She ended up dead so that was a victory for the bad guy.
And arguably he might never have managed it if Bond hadn’t dragged M away from the full resources of MI6 and the British military in favor of a broken-down house with a geriatric groundskeeper, a couple of antique guns and a dog-eared copy of “Kevin McCallister’s Guide to Home Defense.” You can arguably ding Bond for not achieving total victory over Safin, since he died in the effort, but if you want to talk about handing the bad guy what he wants on a silver platter, SF is unbeatable.
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I’m not sure I agree.
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Silva doesn’t know M dies, and therefore never gets the satisfaction of revenge. In this he clearly fails.
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Bond remains unswayed by Silva’s attempts to convince him that M lacks loyalty.
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Finally, and most importantly, Bond kills Silva and in doing so takes down a major SPECTRE operative (or solo criminal, if you don’t like the retcon). If Bond had not lured him to Skyfall using M as bait, Silva would have escaped and continued cyber terrorism until he could get another shot at M. I think M and Bond would both agree that that end is worth either of their lives.
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Yes, but this seems support 008’s point all the more, that
Daniel’s Bond lost to the bad guy an awful lot. Going back to Vesper (not exactly a win there). In QoS his aim was to get revenge, loss…because they had to question the man responsible, I guess (are we ever told exactly what they were supposed to have gotten out of the guy??). Skyfall? What you said, David_M, loss. SP, loss. He doesn’t end up killing the dude who would ultimately ruin his happiness with Madeline, can’t call that a win. NTTD, welp he died, so definite one for the loss column. So Daniel’s Bond lost to the bad guy in every movie… great work everyone. Really really stellar all around.
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This is the one that always bugs me, and I apologize if you’ve had to listen to me go through it before, but here goes:
Bond is presumed dead when he’s shot as a direct result of an order from M. He goes off the grid for an extended period and when he returns, MI-6 has only his word for where he’s been and what he’s been up to.
At the same time, another former star agent who was also a victim of M’s cold efficiency, also presumed dead and has also spent a good deal of time doing who-knows-what who-knows-where, sets off a bomb at MI-6 and makes known his plans to murder M.
Bond seemingly captures Silva, but Silva effects an almost immediate escape in the most implausible manner, demonstrating a…let’s say remarkable ability to time any number of logically unpredictable occurrences to the second. Almost as if he…had help on the inside?
Bond then kidnaps M and spirits her away to a place where MI-6 can not find her. Within a day or so, M is dead and the only witnesses who can account for her last hours are Bond and a longtime servant of the Bond family.
So how is it no one ever considers the very plausible notion that Bond is complicit in Silva’s plans (having been “betrayed” by her as surely as Silva) and took M to Skyfall with the intent of murdering her, subsequently falling out with his co-conspirator and killing him along with anyone else who could have testified one way or the other, and blowing up every bit of evidence within a mile of Skyfall?
Am I the only one bothered by these thoughts? Does it not seem at all odd that an agent could disappear for so long, return just long enough to drag off the boss that nearly got him killed, then said boss ends up dead and the agent is welcomed back no questions asked, reinstated as a double-oh and sent off to the roof to pose majestically in front of the Union Jack? Is there no such thing as “due diligence” in this outfit?
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That’s why they sent the cruise missles after him. It all makes sense now. Delayed retribution.
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You assume they don’t investigate him.
I think they would. Also, with Silva throwing everything at Bond, almost killing him, it would be quite unbelievable for him to work with Silva, stop the assassination attempt in London (which would have worked) in order to go to Skyfall. And instead of killing the groundskeeper he somehow managed to make him lie to the feds?
Also, c‘mon. Bond is on the side of the good guys.
It‘s Q they should doubt. First no firewall, then the smart blood and him going to Austria on his own, then not being able to find a way to kill the nanobots…
Hmmm…
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Because nothing quite says “take me seriously” like quoting Alex Jones…
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Bond failing at something is a feature, not a bug.
He is human who hurts and bleeds and fails. That’s always been the point.
Maybe we have grown so accustomed to superhero films that we have come to expect something different.
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This is an interesting point I hadn’t considered. I believe it comes down to the fact that the Bond films don’t operate on such a level of procedural realism.
Dinging the films on points of tradecraft is a very slippery slope.
It’s almost as if the tension between duty and personal happiness is central to the films.
Bond the human may suffer loss, but Bond the agent dispatches every villain he encounters. 100% success rate.
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I’ve became so accustomed to Bond films that I’ve come to expect something different.
He doesn’t dispatch LeChiffre, that was SP’s doing. He doesn’t “dispatch” Blofeld, that was an accident, you can hardly count it. He doesn’t dispatch Green, that was SP’s doing again. The only big baddies he actually kills are Silva (had already fatally wounded M, mission fail), and Safin (who had already poisioned him and kept him from ever seeing his family again). Decidedly not a 100% success rate. In fact depending on how you look at it it’s a 0% success rate.
So at the end of the day, M was right in CR… it was too early to promote him.
You want to see it that way, then enjoy your disappointment.
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The thing I don’t understand here is why some think Bond failing at the hands of the villain is somehow a Daniel Craig thing.
That’s been a part of the character since the books for heaven’s sake.
Thunderball - Largo has Bond cornered in a cave and is about to kill him when Domino comes in a saves him.
OHMSS - Blofeld turns up alive, kills Bond’s wife 2 feet from him, then drives off into the sunset leaving Bond a broken man.
FRWL - the villain essentially kills Bond (that was Fleming’s intention)
There’s a reason the man smokes and drinks and has reflections in a double bourbon - because he often gets chewed up by life and fails. It’s why he has such a jaded edge.
Are you just now noticing this!?
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SP’s Craig Bond does not know Blofeld will ruin his happiness with Madeline, since it had not been decided yet that there would be another Craig Bond film.
SP ends with Robot Bond discarded, and human Bond driving away with whom he believes he will be happy. Seems like a solid win to this queer boy.
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That may be why I like DAF, MR, and SP best of all Bond films–Bond does not fail (though he is severely tested).
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Exactly. He couldn’t have known.
About the only case that he catches the bad guy and has him imprisoned afterwards. That’s how the job should be done. Not by always killing them. He’s got a licence to kill, not an obligation.
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Bond not killing Blofeld in SPECTRE was the right move. Blofeld was beaten and executing him in the middle of London would probably have been a war crime. When Bond kills the villain it’s a necessity, the result of a fight to the death or them having a weapon trained on him. In fact, knowing when to kill and when not to kill has been a recurring idea in Craig’s tenure.
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Exactly.
Especially when his handgun can take down a helicopter.
And a thought that has just occurred: SPECTRE opens with Robot Bond going galactic in killing one person on orders, followed by the narrative course of the film, and ends with Human Bond not killing a person.
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